[Oe List ...] Bill Holmes' Book

Fri May 28 15:31:47 CDT 2010

I've recently run across the science fiction writer Robert J. Sawyer
(Canadian) - provocative and interesting. I've read Calculating God and
Hominids. Both raise interesting questions and have my "need to understand
at a concrete vs. abstract level (even if horribly random)" brain
scrambling.

Theology is where you find it (yeah, everywhere) - and especially in living
with a 13 (and 1 week) year old who is a completely Indigo child, who has
not forgotten what most of us had by age 5 or earlier about where she came
from, can accurately pinpoint her feelings at any given moment, and nail you
on your illusions (without being mean about it). Geez, does this mean the
next time around COULD conceivably be better! :>)

Sunny

Sunny Walker

303-671-0704

Cell: 303-587-3017

sunwalker at comcast.net 

Opening windows that fresh ideas may revive us and our lives have meaning

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Jack Gilles
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:32 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Bill Holmes' Book

John,

I really appreciate your responses to the book. I don't have my copy yet,
having had it sent to an address in the States as I sit in beautiful Mexico.
But I look forward to reading it.  I believe you are dead-on regarding
Bonhoffer.  Clearly it is only out of the Word that you can possibly act in
situations where it's choices between "right and right" and "wrong and
wrong".  I have shared with John Cock that I found this to be a weakness in
the PJL as I experienced it.  This seems like a book we might see how a
group could "study" on line, much as the present study group is doing.  But
I'd like to wait until I have a copy!

G&P,

Jack

On May 26, 2010, at 7:12 PM, John C. Montgomery wrote:

I've gotten through my initial read of Holmes' book and intend to spend some
time with it again this weekend. My first impressions are mixed. While I
found his exposition of both Tillich and Bonnhoeffer very helpful and far
more articulate than I could ever muster, I missed the Christology - where
was the discussion of how Christian faith is deeper than stoicism? I didn't
see that - maybe I skipped it.

The discussion of Bonnhoeffer was very helpful, but in the midst of our
concentration on the tension between freedom and obedience, we miss the
point if we do not begin to speak of the Christ event that allows us to act
in the midst of that tension. I think we missed that point in a lot of RS-1
seminars, if we thought the paper was about problem solving and scientific
method. The problem with dialectical models like the one Bonnhoeffer uses is
that there is really never a third term - there is no responsibility that is
separate from either the challenge to our irresponsible freedom or our lack
of creativity in the misdt of our sense of duty.

If I could teach the seminar again, my bottom line question would be, "when
have you ever found yourself so enamored with your own relative sense of
action ready to just do your own thing and someone rubbed your face in
innocent suffering and asked what your might do about it?" or "when in your
life were you paralyzed by so many demands pulling you one way and the
other, that someone points out that maybe you should do at least one thing."
After some sharing, I would then ask, now what Bonnhoeffer might say was
going on - and more importantly, why is God important in the equation?

I must admit that I was taken aback to find in the opening chapters of a
book about Mature Christianity a discussion about the reappropriation of the
Father metaphor - Did we miss the feminist revolution?  But on closer
reading, I have been somewhat intrigued. Many of us have been reading
Spong's latest take on moving beyond childish models of a supernatural
parent that guards us from our fear, etc. It seems to me, that Holmes may
open the door to an analysis of a mature relationship that does not have to
reject all theistic images like Spong suggests.

The existential theology of the mid-20th century certianly was a theological
revolution in many of our lives - of course, a lot has happened since then
as well - It feels like Holmes is struggling to hold some tension.
Theological conversation did not stop with the Niebuhr brothers - the
question of "what do I? in the midst of the complexity of our pluralistic
world pushes us into a radically different depth - I am grateful for my
feminist, womanist and indigenous brothers and sisters who have given
permission to ask lots of questions, some quite skeptical. Liberation
theologians have certainly pushed back on the radical individualism of
existentialist models of sin that can trivialize social sin and at least for
me, emerging evolutionary models of God, like someone like John Cobb and
Marjorie Suchocki, give me permission to move beyond Tillich and Spong to
reappropriate an active relationship with God "zs a being," not a
supernatural God, but one who is interactive in every moment.

Of course, the key is to keep the conversation open. Holmes does seem to do
that.

John C. Montgomery
(c) 678-468-4913
www.monkeyltd.wordpress.com

Charity depends on the vicissitudes of whim and personal wealth; 
justice depends on commitment instead of circumstance. 
Faith-based charity provides crumbs from the table; 
faith-based justice offers a place at the table.

- Bill Moyers, television journalist and social commentator. 

----- Original Message -----
From: jlepps at pc.jaring.my
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:42:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [Oe List ...] Bill Holmes' Book

Colleagues:

This is a word of promotion for Bill Holmes' new book, Mature Christianity:
for come-of-age Christians in a come-of-age world. It's published by
Resurgence Publishing in 2010, and can be ordered from George Walters. Or
you can get it from the Resurgence Publishing Website at 

www.ResurgencePublishing.com <http://www.resurgencepublishing.com/>  

The reason I'm suggesting this is that it's the closest thing I've seen to
RS-1 in a book. It was my privilege to edit the book, and reading it
thoroughly was a treat that I commend to you.

Bill gave the keynote address at the Mathews Symposium in December, and has
been a long-time colleague. He's also a high-profile Methodist minister,
having served for 24 years in the Metropolitan Memorial Church in
Washington,D.C., United Methodism's National Church. 

Apparently this book is getting a good reception, and many local church
study groups are getting it. Bill is preparing a study guide for use with
groups (and using the ORID framework). If you're in such a group, you may
want to consider it.

I hope you find it as helpful as I did.

John Epps

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