[Oe List ...] Mayflower Compact

Wed Nov 24 07:43:06 CST 2010

History is kind of funny that way, a little different look on Thanksgiving was in the Op. Ed. NY Times today, you can see at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/opinion/24hall.html

It's entitled Peace, Love and Puritanism authored by David Hall, a New England Historian.

Perhaps Thanksgiving is a celebration about what we all bring (brought) to the table.

George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Home: 512/252-2756
Mobile 512/294-5952
geowanda at earthlink.net

‎"The future belongs to those who give the next generation reason for hope." -Teilhard de Chardin

On Nov 24, 2010, at 7:25 AM, Herman Greene wrote:

> I agree. The whole complex picture with all of its contradictions has to be received.
>  
> I am grateful for these Pilgrims because, were it not for them, I wouldn’t be here, nor would all I have and see be here.
>  
> And I am still clinging to and trying to make sense of what they truly believed was “the finest religion of the world, the highest intellectual, aesthetic, and moral development, the finest jurisprudence.”
>  
> Herman
>  
> From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Charles or Doris Hahn
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 5:52 PM
> To: Order Ecumenical Community
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Mayflower Compact
>  
> Hi Herman,
>  
> Thanks for re-affirming Thomas Berry's and your and my understanding of what happened as a result of our arriving.  It resulted in the devestation not only of the environment, but also of unnumbered people.
>  
> However, I think that for a day or two people are trying to stand in the shoes of that small band of people who were trying to get to a place where they could worship they way they desired unhindered by a state church.  There is a sense in which we could say that was a small concern in relation to the ultimate happening to this continent, but we should also ask ourselves "What are the dreams we have today, that are kin to those of the people one the Mayflower?"
>  
> Thanks Again.
> Charles
>  
> From: Herman Greene <hfgreene at mindspring.com>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 5:34:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Mayflower Compact
> 
> And again here is Thomas Berry’s view on understandings in the Compact
>  
> In his chapter on “The North American Continent,” Thomas juxtaposes the culture of the American Indians and that of the Europeans settlers. The arrival of the Europeans in North America , he says, “could be considered as one of the more fateful moments in history, not only of this continent but of the entire planet…. Every living being on this continent might have shuddered with foreboding when that first tiny sail appeared over the Atlantic horizon” (p. 40).
>  
>       The first peoples of North America and the European settlers held two sharply contending views of nature. “To indigenous people…the natural world was the manifestation of a numinous presence that gave meaning to all existence…. As seen by the Europeans the continent was here to serve human purposes though trade and commerce, as well as through the more immediate personal and household needs of the colonists. They had nothing spiritual to learn from this continent. Their attitude toward the land as primarily for use was the critical issue” (p. 44).
>  
>       Culturally derived anthropocentrism caused insuperable difficulty for the Europeans in establishing any intimate rapport with the North American continent or its people. To Thomas, “Such orientation of Western consciousness had its fourfold origin in the Greek [humanistic] cultural tradition, the biblical-Christian religious tradition, the English political-legal tradition, and the economic tradition associated with the new vigor of the merchant class” (p. 45). To the Europeans “[t]heir human-spiritual formation was complete before they came. They came[, they thought,] with the finest religion of the world, the highest intellectual, aesthetic, and moral development, the finest jurisprudence. They needed this continent simply as a political refuge and as a region to be exploited” (p. 43). They were committed to a “divinely commissioned task of commercially exploiting this continent [and] could even experience a high spiritual exaltation in what [they] were doing” (p. 46).
>  
>  
>  
> From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Charles or Doris Hahn
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 5:25 PM
> To: OE; Dialogue
> Subject: [Oe List ...] Mayflower Compact
>  
> Hi All
> Here is a copy of The Mayflower Compact.  It is from the 1951 World Almanac. 
> Enjoy
> Charles Hahn
> 
> The Mayflower Compact
> In the Name of God, Amen.  We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects
> of our dread sovereign Lord, King James, by the grace of Good, of Great Britain ,
> France and Ireland King, Defender of the faith, etc,.
> Having Undertaken,  for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith
> and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the
> northern parts of Virginia , so by these presents solemnly and mutually in the
> presence of God, and on of  another covenant and combine ourselves together into
> a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance
> of the ends aforesaid: and by virtue hereof  to enact, constitute and frame such
> just and equal laws, ordinances, act, constitutions and offices, from time to
> time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the
> Colony: unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.
> In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11 of
> November, (Nov. 21 new style Calendar), in the year of the reign of our
> sovereign Lord, King James of England , France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of
> Scotland the fifty-fourth, Ano. Dom. 1620.
> John Carver
> William Bradford
> Edward Winslow
> William Brewster
> Isaac Allerton
> Myles Standish
> John Alden
> Samuel Fuller
> Christopher Martin
> William Mullins
> William White
> Richard Warren
> John Howland
> Stephhen Hopkins
> Edward Tilly
> John Tilly
> Francis Cook
> Thomas Rogers
> Thomas Tinker
> John Rigdale
> Edward Fuller
> John Turner
> Francis Eaton
> James Chilton
> John Crackston
> John Billington
> Moses Fletcheer
> John Goodman
> Degory Prist
> Thomas Williams
> Gilbert Winslow
> Edmond Margeson
> Peter Brown
> Richard Britterdge
> George Soule
> Richard Clark
> Richard Gardiner
> John Allerton
> Edward Doty
> Edward Leister
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at wedgeblade.net
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net
> 
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3274 - Release Date: 11/23/10
> 
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3274 - Release Date: 11/23/10
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at wedgeblade.net
> http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe_wedgeblade.net/attachments/20101124/bacac0fc/attachment-0001.html>