[Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

Tue Oct 5 12:30:20 CDT 2010

It took me a while to get to this stream on EST etc. I never attended a
seminar but worked with a lot of people that were true believers in the 70's
and 80's. As many of you have said they were very pushy on getting others
involved to the point of being obnoxious. When Kathryn was working at
Charity Hospital here in New Orleans there was one woman under her who spent
her entire time on EST recruiting instead of work. Apparently from what some
of you said there were some strong contributions including all of the bumper
stickers "Think Global Act Local" and consciouness raising re: hunger. I
remember Mort Stahl saying at one point in a comedy routine "I had a
blueprint for living but I threw it away" I think the Esties or EST holes as
one of my fellow workers called them were often in a "blueprint for living"
mentality. We of course had a few of those which I guess is sometimes
unavoidable when people are desperate for meaning more than open to mystery.
(Maybe just maybe we all at sometime got trapped)

Carlos R. Zervigon, PMP 

Zervigon International, Ltd.

817 Antonine St.

New Orleans, LA  70115  USA

504 894-9868 Mobile: 504 908-0762

carlos at zervigon.com

http://www.zervigon.com

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Sunny Walker
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:04 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

Oh, Gordon - you've just reminded me of a time in Research Centrum in
Chicago when our team was investigating all this "new age" stuff and we sat
down together to watch Semi Tough (STILL one of my all time favorite movies)
- Speaking of wetting one's pants - I'm sure some one or more of us had that
experience because we were laughing so hard. I thought Slicker was going to
fall of his chair. The spoof is sheer delight.

Sunny

Sunny Walker

303-671-0704

Cell: 303-587-3017

sunwalker at comcast.net 

Opening windows that fresh ideas may revive us and our lives have meaning

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of gharper1 at mindspring.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 6:19 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community; Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

I don't know of any influence either way between the original est and RS-1.
With Landmark, it's a bit different.  What there was, at least in the '70s
was a connection between Werner and the Order.  He learned about us and was
keenly interested in understanding everything he could about our nature and
operation.  I recall our hosting him at Kemper, probably around 1975.  That
was my first opportunity to meet and slightly get to know him.  I had not
been in an est program but was generally familiar with it from the accounts
of others who had.

As others have noted, he was very impressed with our HDP efforts and the
connections he saw with his own work in the Hunger Project.  He asked if he
could visit Maliwada, and we said of course.  I recall this being in 1977 or
'78.  When he and his wife at the time arrived, I took them around the
village, explained the HDTI and answered his questions for about three days.
He subsequently wrote a major article on Maliwada for his newsletter based
on his time there.

Werner was (probably still is) a wonderfully engaging guy, and his wife had
one of those experiences in India that I'm sure she's never forgotten.  I've
lost her name (Roxana remembers it as Linda), and I think there may have
been other marriages, but she was a stunning blond and attracted no small
attention walking around the village.  This was especially the case on one
occasion when she went into one of our pretty basic latrines and, after
assuming the position, noticed a cobra coiled up on the ceiling.  She burst
from the latrine crying out in a loud voice and rearranging her clothes as
she ran.  All the villagers and training school participants came running to
her aid, grabbing stones and anything that could serve as a club.  The poor
cobra tried its best to slither away, but it never had a chance with such a
mob on its tail.

The ICA staff and village folk tried to keep their merriment under control
as all this unfolded, with mixed success.  I think we all had a good laugh
afterwards, including our visitors.

One of the consequences of Werner's visit--and still another real influence
that we had on Landmark's work--was the Integrity paper that I've written
about in the piece on the Repository.  I've spoken with half a dozen
Landmark people over the years who were attempting to trace the origins of
this little paper that they use as a core study in their course on
Integrity.  I think that finally they are giving it appropriate attribution,
but for many years that was not the case.  If you don't know the story, you
can find it here:

http://wiki.wedgeblade.net/bin/view/Main/IntegrityTalk

I was interested enough in what Landmark was doing to take the Forum in the
late '90s here in Seattle, and found it quite intriguing.  There were a few
brief segments that were actually identical to bits in RS-1, and I suspect
they emigrated there from Werner's or his colleagues' encounters with us.
But the totality has its own integrity and I found to operate on a far more
authentiic ontological level than the psychologism I was expecting to find.
The Forum leader was beyond impressive, holding a roomfull of a couple
hundred very diverse people spellbound, without notes, for three days of
talks and pushy activities.  And yes, I was able to use the restroom when
necessary.  What people have said about the attempts of Landmark staff to
make adherents of people following the courses corresponds to my experience;
I've managed to resist these.

If you don't know the movie that is a clear takeoff of est, you should.
It's called Semi 
Tough, and it's the story of a jock, played by Burt Reynolds, who's chasing
a coed involved with this group that is a thinly veiled version of est.  How
Burt's character deals with the "no leaving the program to deal with the
call of nature" rule is worth the price of the movie all by itself.  A
caricature, to be sure, but great fun.

Gordon

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jack Gilles 
Sent: Oct 4, 2010 11:26 AM 
To: Order Ecumenical Community 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News 

We found that est and Landmark Forum to be big in India.  Educated,
relatively young Indians, seem to be very attracted to these type of
programs.   The other thing I noticed was that whenever we did a seminar and
asked people to talk about books or authors that made a big impact on their
lives, so many would mention Ayn Rand.  Quite amazing.

Jack

On Oct 4, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Marsha Hahn wrote:

Ditto my own experience.  Several years ago an acquaintance invited me to
her home to learn about a "leadership program."  I was naturally intrigued.
It turned out to be Landmark Forum, which I had never heard of before.  At
some point during the presentation something clicked for me and I made the
association with Werner Erhardt (sp?).  I asked the presenter if there was a
connection.  She looked very flustered (not my intention, but interesting)
and gave me a vague answer.  The more we got into it, the more my "yuck"
button was getting pressed.  It was getting late, and I decided to excuse
myself.  The other invitees promptly followed me out the door and shared
their reactions similar to my own.

However, I do know people who have found their work very beneficial,
including at least one former Order colleague.  It just wasn't for me.

Marsha

  _____  

From: Herman Greene <hfgreene at mindspring.com>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:43:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

A week ago Sunday I was out running and an old friend recognized me and
stopped his car. He said he was on his way to a Landmark Presentation that
he was leading on my street and asked me to come over. I didn't know what it
was about, but thought I would stop in after my run. I ran pass the house he
was in and he saw me and came out to the street and asked me to come in
right then. I said to myself, "Who knows, maybe this is something I should
know about." In my sweaty running clothes I went in and there were two other
newcomers. We were asked to right down problem areas in our life and share.
About five minutes into that I said, "I'm feeling this is not where I should
be this afternoon" and left.

These guys were a little like RS-I recruiters.

Herman

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of W. J.
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:55 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

Yes, ICA was mentioned in the Hunger Project materials. Maybe Joe Thomas did
that. Don't remember exactly, so don't hold me to it.

I think the point of the Hunger Project was if they talked enough about
eliminating global hunger and raised enough money to keep talking about it
more and more, then that alone would raise consciousness enough to eliminate
global hunger. Or something like that. Voila! Gone. Amazing.

A.M. Novel used to be very big on Landmark Education. Wonder what he thinks
of it now.

Marshall

  _____  

From: frank bremner <fjbremner at hotmail.com>
To: Dialogue OE <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 11:45:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

Dear colleagues

There was a rumour around, in the late 70s, that Werner Erhard (originally
Jack Rosenberg) had done RS-I.  I found no reference to this in any of the
books aboutest (Erhard Seminars Training, or Latin for "it is"?) or Werner
Erhard that I came across at that time.  But he did do a lot of homework
before setting up his organisation.

I took the est  training in late 1978 or early 1979, in Chicago .  The same
things that impressed Beret and Ron impressed me.  Of course, at that time
anything remotely psychological was O:E/EI/ICA heresy.

I did a followup course in Philadelphia in 1979-80, and another one in
Adelaide in 1980-81.  They were disappointing, with very litle new content
or processes.  They assumed that doing another course was the only "next
step" that was OK, while successive courses just concentrated on doing more
courses, and on recruiting people to the basic est  training.  The volunteer
and paid assistants were very poor at participating in discussion or
dialogue around the edges - they behaved like the "est-ies" of the various
caricatures and sendups of them in the movies.  Very much "Join our movement
- it's the best!" in style.

So: at least one good event, but a crap organisation.  [I remember an
Anglican clergyman saying something similar about EI about 1973:  "Great
ideas, great courses, but I don't think much of the organisation."]

Worth reading: Luke Rinehart's Book of Est, and Bill Bartley's book about
Werner Erhard.  Nothing else I came across took "the work" seriously enough
to do a thorough commentary and critique - most articles and books never got
inside the est  mindset, and its interplay of Zen Buddhist thought,
psychology, and the middle-class audience, to be worth much.  I was trying
to write some papers on "the consciousness movement" at the time, before
Peter Russell or Marilyn Ferguson achieved any prominence, and I came across
so much sensationalist garbage in my research.  A colleague said recently:
"All organisations and movements have their blind spots".

I have heard little about Landmark Education, as the organisation is now
known.  The est Seminar  has been replaced by The Forum, and has a small (?)
Australian presence.

In the 1980s, the library at the high school where I was teaching received a
thick volume about global hunger, as thanks for letting someone speak to a
lunchtime meeting about The Hunger Project, an endeavour set up by the est
organisation.  It covered a variety of approaches, including comprehensive
community/human development.  And in one of the Project's newsletters I saw
a mention of the ICA work in Maharashtra State , India ; so there was some
information transferred there - did Werner of somebody visit India ?.  One
of the Project's themes was "the possibility of eradicating hunger".  Now
there are T-shirts and so on on this theme - if smallpox can be eradicated,
why not hunger?  Etc.

Cheers

Frank Bremner

  _____  

Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 22:17:07 -0500
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
From: beretgriffith at charter.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

I don't think there was any connection between RS-1 and EST. Ron and I took
the EST training in Chicago in 1976 or 1977. Marshall 's take is on target.
Ron and I both felt the EST training was a unique avenue to getting people
to look at their lives rather than escaping from life. It was far more
aggressive than any thing EI/ICA did with people and I think it was an
avenue of transformation of many people. There were about three hundred
people in the training we took. The trainers were outstanding. In any EST
event I attended trainers used no notes, the set-up impeccable, and no
excuses were accepted for anything. While at the EST training we became
acquainted with an interesting couple. We brought them over the Kemper to
see the ICA . They were more interested in getting us to go to additional
programs than in the ICA . We did not keep up the connection with them. The
EST enrollment tactics were high pressure. 

There is a film out on his life which I have seen. Enjoyed it. There is a
site with his quotes.A sample:

"Happiness is a function of accepting what is. Love is a function of
communication. Health is a function of participation.  Self expression is a
function of responsibility."

-Werner Erhard

I think Erhard is an interesting character. Here is a bit on him from
http://www.wernererhard.net/ 
For nearly 40 years Werner Erhard has been the creator of innovative ideas
and models of individual, organizational, and social transformation.  His
ideas and models have been the source of new perspectives for thinkers and
practitioners in fields as diverse as business, education, philosophy,
medicine, psychotherapy, third world development, conflict resolution
<http://www.masteryfoundation.org/peace/ireland/blockanderhard/> , and
community building.  He has created new ways of seeing things in areas where
progress has stalled or where breakthroughs would make a significant
difference.  A majority of the Fortune 100 companies and many foundations
and governmental entities have used his ideas and models.  Fortune
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_%28magazine%29>  Magazine's 40th
anniversary issue (May 15, 1995), in examining the major contributions to
management thinking, recognized Erhard's ideas as one of the major
innovations of the last few decades. 

While Werner Erhard <http://www.wernererhard.com/>  may be best known to the
general public for applications derived from his models including The est
Training <http://erhardseminarstraining.com/>  and The Forum of the 1970s
and 1980s, currently Erhard commits his time and intellectual effort almost
exclusively to the academic world.  Werner Erhard's recent research and
writing, and lectures and courses can be found on his author page in the
Social Sciences Research Network <http://www.ssrn.com/>  -
http://ssrn.com/author=433651.  More than two million people around the
world have participated in the public, corporate and academic programs and
courses he has created.  Social scientist Daniel Yankelovich
<http://www.danyankelovich.com/>  said of a study he conducted of
participants of The Forum: "Several of the study's findings surprised me
quite a bit, especially the large number of participants for whom The Forum
proved to be 'one of the most valued experiences of my life'. This is not a
sentiment that people, especially successful, well-educated people, express
lightly."  

Werner Erhard is largely self-educated, albeit with tutoring from some
important thinkers of his time, Sir Karl
<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/>  Popper, Hilary
<http://www.webalice.it/af_gazzola/putnam/home.htm>  Putnam, Michel
<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/foucault/>  Foucault, Humberto
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberto_Maturana>  Maturana and Richard
Feynman
<http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1965/feynman-bio.html>
to name a few.  Professor of Philosophy, Michael E. Zimmerman
<http://www.colorado.edu/ArtsSciences/CHA/profiles/zimmerman.html>  said of
Erhard "He had no particular formal training in anything, but he understood
things as well as anyone I'd ever seen; and I've been around a lot of smart
people in academia.  This is an extraordinary intellect I saw at work."  In
recognition of his humanitarian work around the world Werner Erhard was
awarded the Mahatma Gandhi Humanitarian Award. 

There is a site with his more recent papers. I'm going to take a look.
Beret Griffith

At 06:41 PM 10/3/2010, you wrote:

I choked and gagged reflexively when I read that RS-1 in any way birthed
Werner Erhard's EST. [pardon me while I throw up]. 
The only similarity I can think of might be the style of boxing people into
a weekend format and forcing them to deal with something rather than
escaping into their favorite avoidance patterns. 
Hmm, sound familiar?
Or maybe this one: "There ISN'T any Messiah..."
Marshall
And I don't think we made people hold it until they wet their panties--a
famous Erhard tactic.

From: "slottaglobalnews at earthlink.net" <slottaglobalnews at earthlink.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 4:04:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] FW: Landmark Education News

I think Landmark Education is a spin-off from RSI through the work of Werner
Erhard. Once called EST it became Landmark Forum and then Landmark
Education. It is still recruited pretty much like RS-I.

On Oct 2, 2010, at 10:10 AM, KarenBueno at aol.com wrote:

That looks like a dynamite organization.  I wonder if they have plans to
replicate it.

Karen Bueno

In a message dated 10/2/2010 8:29:53 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
amnoel at comcast.net writes:

the following video that has impacted my family and 3 million lives

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