[Oe List ...] Salmon: On God

James Wiegel jfwiegel at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 13 20:08:59 CDT 2010


Desmond Avery's book, Beyond Power:  Simone Weil and the Notion of Authority, would be a great study book -- I read it this summer (and had chance, celebrating their 40th Anniversary for extended conversations with the author).  As humans, we don't ever start from scratch and never come near thinking things through all the way.  We rely on all kinds of "authorities", kind of assuming they are right (which includes the authority of our own experience).  
"In every area of life, from personal well-being to international decision-making, the need for a better understanding of whom to obey, ignore, or oppose is conspicuous.  The writings of Simone Weil, whether admired for their brilliance or deplored for their shortcomings, offer a unique opportunity to construct such an understanding."

Jim



The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.  William Arthur Ward.



Jim Wiegel

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401

+1  623-936-8671   +1  623-363-3277

   jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com

--- On Wed, 10/13/10, Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com> wrote:

From: Susan Fertig <susan at gmdtech.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: On God
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 5:43 PM




 
 







 



You said, “Where was God …” and then posited that He was
in those moments in the manifestation of love. 

Life is the refiner’s fire.  I believe He doesn’t bring or give
us trouble, but He allows it. And it is in those moments of greatest pain, or
struggle, that the greatest intimacy with Him is possible. 

   



Susan 



   





From:
oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of William
Salmon

Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:05 AM

To: Order Ecumenical Community

Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: On God 





   



Colleagues
All-- 





   
One 20th and 21st Century danger is that of claiming a God that is too small.
One of the blessings of the Order's proclamation of God as Mystery is that it
forced us to acknowledge that which we are not. In order to embrace such a definition
it was necessary to suspend our dis-belief. At least this definition does not
fall off on moralism or pietism. It does become distorted by a false
objectification. 





   
I've never been comfortable with a God as Mystery, although I can theologically
justify such a God; there is too much that we can not understand.  





   
However, the objectification of all our old Christian Code Words is THE PROBLEM
given to us in our Modern Worldview created at the great paradigm TURN during
the 15th and 16th Century. The invention of the Scientific Method, the
Renaissance, the Reformation, and Industrial/Urbanization birthed such an
objectification yet still framed it in metaphysical analysis; for his
time, Pipa is correct in his Passes: "God's in His (sic) heaven and all's
right with the world."  





   
The problem is clearly manifested at the Great paradigm TURN initiated by
Einstein's physics. There ain't no Heaven and there's not a God to reside
there! There never was and there never will be.The reason is this kind of God
just ain't!  





   
Isn't this the message of Jesus? Are
you looking for the Lone Ranger? There isn't any, and I'm He! The
one who comes to tell us that an objective God does not exist actually is
the God we seek. Such information is more than the Truth, actually it is the
experience of GOODNESS.  





   
God is not an object that lives beyond the sky.Our faith-story is that God
is EXPERIENCED as Love. We need to remember that Love comes to us as
forgiveness, acceptance, passion, in
familial, and as Tough Love ("Order Member, get your ass
out of bed and into Daily Office!" Remember?) 





   
This experience is no Mystery. It is as intimate as it is universal. We
experience it in every aspect of creation from birth, driven through pain and
joy, and then in death. Love comes to us at every turn.  





   
Those who are awake to this GOOD NEWS understand the formula ALL IS GOOD, THE
PRESENT IS RECEIVED AS A GIFT, THE PAST NOT ONLY IS FORGIVEN IT IS FORGOTTEN,
AND THE FUTURE IS OPEN!  





   
It is the work of the Awakened to demonstrate this TRUTH that the truth we
seek actually is GOODNESS. The way in which we embrace this reality is to take
the Leap of Faith; that is, to surrender by falling into the care of such Good
News and ask others to come leap with us.  





    To die to our illusions of what Truth
actually is becomes the profound experience of resurrection into blessed
assurance.   





   
The movie, "Joe Vs. the Volcano" (Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan) tell this story
is Spades, and Joe and Patricia actually make the sacrifice of
jumping into a volcano for a group of people (a part of the Lost Tribes of
Israel!) who are to chicken to do their own sacrifice. Why does Joe do
this? He does it because he wants to, "Live like a king and die
like a man." The result is that the movie ends by "taking us away
from the things of man;" i.e., our illusions about the
objectification of our old Christian Lexicon.    





   
Because they make this leap, a WONDER occurs. (Observe this is not a
MIRACLE. What happens is the result of Love, and that is not the TRUTH,
but it is a GOODNESS.)  





  





   
Post-modern theology never asks the question, "What do we KNOW about
God, Christ, HS, the Human Situation, Sin, Grace, etc." The question
always is, "How do we EXPERIENCE these things."  





   
Until this little exercise becomes second nature, all of us will continue to
attempt to define the indefinable simply because it is not definable. It is
experienced as close as our breath and our empathy and our sympathy. It is as
close as living the surrendered life as a servant to our spouses, partners,
friends and colleagues.  





   
Now, Mother Nature is something else. Mom N is the culprit for much of
what we blame God. Why did our son Wesley die at 20 years old with
leukemia? Is God punishing him, or his parents. Not on your sweet
bippy! Leukemia and childhood death is just The Way Life Is (TWLI).
Yep, Mom Nature guarantees that leukemia and cancer, and crib death all have
their place in the universe. She also is responsible for the depth of
degradation that we selfish--read Un-Awakened--ass holes are capable of
doing to beat up on those who don't UNDERSTAND GOD just like we do; how
else can you explain 9/11? 





   
Where was Love when 200 people jumped 110 stories? Or where was Love when the
plane on the way into the Pennsylvanian earth when someone on board yelled,
"Let's roll!"  





   
Easy. Love was on board, and with the jumpers all the way into the ground. Then
Love was in the rebirth of patriotism, and generosity, and actual care for
those who hurt.  





  





   Well,
like always, I've said too much, much too badly.  





   Maybe
this will stir your juices to begin to think in the methods of our Post-Modern
worldview. Care to dialogue?  





   Inner
Peace,  





   Bill
Salmon 







-----
Original Message -----  





From: Susan Fertig  





To: 'Order Ecumenical
Community'  





Sent: Monday, October 11,
2010 6:54 PM 





Subject: Re: [Oe List ...]
Pedagogue list of last 20 years 





   



I backslid into believing in the Trinity, and a God in control. 

   



Susan 



   





From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of David Walters

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:44 PM

To: Order Ecumenical Community

Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Pedagogue list of last 20 years 





   



What happened between you and Kazantzakis?
Have you departed from the Crimson Line? 





  





David Walters 







-----
Original Message -----  





From: Susan Fertig  





To: 'Order Ecumenical
Community' ; dialogue at wedgeblade.net  





Sent: Friday, October 08,
2010 3:30 PM 





Subject: Re: [Oe List ...]
Pedagogue list of last 20 years 





   



Pedagogues: 

Don Clark (72-76, Venezuela courses and Houston Rel. Hse.) 

Christina Clark (Houston period) 

Sherwood Shankland (ongoing, beginning in the 70s) 

Bruce and Marcie Bunker (Venezuela, Caracas Rel. Hse.) 

Rafael Davila 

Steve Allen (courses in Venezuela) 

George and Wanda Holcombe 

George West 

And many others 

Guides: 

Herman Hesse (Journey to the East) 

Teilhard de Chardin 

Kazantzakis (at one time, not any longer) 

   



Susan 



   





From:
oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of LAURELCG at aol.com

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 1:00 PM

To: Oe at wedgeblade.net; dialogue at wedgeblade.net

Subject: [Oe List ...] Pedagogue list of last 20 years 





   




 
  
  
  I wanted to bring back this
  list. Hope my editing attempt didn't delete anything vital to its meaning.
  Here's mine. 
  
  
  I have to go back a little
  further to the 80's when the 12 Steps of A.A. saved me and my family. 
  
  
  Matthew Fox led me to the
  Four Paths of Creation Spirituality: Positiva, Negativa, Creativa,
  Transformativa. 
  
  
  Starhawk on Feminist
  Thealogy, took me beyond the church's stance of female as less than
  fully human 
  
  
  Rosalyn Bruyere on energy
  healing 
  
  
  Thomas Berry and Bryan
  Swimme on the Universe Story and our moment in it 
  
  
  Ann LaMott on writing and
  the importance of humor 
  
  
  Barbara Kingsolver - myriad
  gifts 
  
  
  Barack Obama - all is
  possible 
  
  
  Richard Bartlett -
  importance of hallucinating the possible - it's all possible 
  
  
    
  
  
  Thanks for asking. 
  
  
  Blessings, dear colleagues, 
  
  
  Jann McGuire 
  
  
    
  
  
  This is interesting, perhaps add, what image did they help
  puncture or shape?

  Robert Bly -- gave me back poetry

  Nikos Kazantzakis -- I keep coming back to Saviors of God -- reminds me of
  the awesome journey

  Rianne Eisler -- living in a post patriarchal time . . .

  Vaclav Havel -- meaning can shape political realities 
  
  
  

  --- On Wed, 9/29/10, R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com> wrote:

  From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>

  Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] New Pedagogy and New Pedagogues

  To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>

  Date: Wednesday, Septem 
  
  
  
  
   
    
    
    Parker Palmer 
    
    
    Peter Senge 
    
    
    Margaret Wheatley 
    
    
    Willis Harman 
    
    
    Rachel Naomi Remen 
    
    
    Robert Greenleaf 
    
    
    Peter Block

    

    --- On Wed, 9/29/10, PSchrijnen at aol.com <PSchrijnen at aol.com>
    wrote 
    
    
    David Whyte  
    
    
    Richard McDonald 
    
    
    Robert Bly 
    
    
    Rowan Williams 
    
    
    Thich Nhat Hanh 
    
    
    

    > START CLOSE IN

    >

    > Start close in,

    > don't take the second step

    > or the third,

    > start with the first

    > thing

    > close in,

    > the step you don't want to take.

    >

    > Start with

    > the ground

    > you know,

    > the pale ground

    > beneath your feet,

    > your own

    > way of starting

    > the conversation.

    >

    > Start with your own

    > question,

    > give up on other

    > people's questions,

    > don't let them

    > smother something

    > simple.

    >

    > To find

    > another's voice

    > follow

    > your own voice,

    >

    > wait until

    > that voice

    > becomes a

    > private ear

    > listening

    > to another.

    >

    > Start right now

    > take a small step

    > you can call your own

    > don't follow

    > someone else's

    > heroics, be humble

    > and focused,

    > start close in,

    > don't mistake

    > that other

    > for your own.

    >

    > Start close in,

    > don't take the second step

    > or the third,

    > start with the first

    > thing

    > close in,

    > the step you don't want to take.

    >

    >

    > ~ David Whyte

    >

    >

    > People who are aware of this process and consciously cooperating with

    > it are developing what David Whyte calls "True Presence" and
    a

    > "Conversational Identity".  If you haven't gotten his
    Live in San

    > Francisco DVD, you and Burna would just love it!  I think I ordered
    it

    > for $15 on his website DavidWhyte. com  
    
    
    

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