[Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

Wed Aug 10 08:34:13 EDT 2011

Janice,
I don't feel any disrespect is meant in the letter. I have Jewish heritage, in fact my daughter Angela was named in a Temple as a baby . I think the intent is to point out the absurdity of taking everything the Bible says literally in this day and age. And especially when it means hurtful actions in a time when what's need is love. Many of the rules created in those times may have had a necessary purpose. I suppose the social climate of our times does cause sensitivity to this kind of humor. It could be taken the wrong way. Sorry if it offended you or anyone else. That certainly was not the intent.
Grace and Peace,
Rose Anne

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Janice Ulangca" <aulangca at stny.rr.com>
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:22:58 -0400

<!--CTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//E--><div><span style="font-family: Arial;">The first time I heard something similar was on the TV program The West Wing.  The US president was quoting some of these points to a right-wing literalist Christian.  Then I had no problem feeling very satisfied with these gotcha arguments, and laughing freely. Now I do have a problem -probably because I now have some Jewish friends who I admire very much. I don't know how to talk adequately about what the Torah (the law) means to them. But the folks I have in mind have quite a bit of knowledge about the ancient setting in which the Torah was written down.  Many of us Christians have things that we take literally, too.  Does Resurrection really mean the resusitation of a dead body?  Not to me - and not to Christian scholars who make the most sense to me (Marcus Borg and Jack Spong, for two).  Dr. Amy-Jill Levine is coming to our area to speak in September, and I much look forward to her workshop on early common era Judaism - the millieu in which Jesus lived and taught.  She is a terrific speaker - has been on some of the Living the Questions DVDs.  An observant Orthodox Jew, she is a professor of New Testament  (and Judaic Studies) at Vanderbilt University Seminary.  So Dr. Kauffman, the hint of smug superiority that underlies your clever questions does bother me, because it makes fun of what Jews see as an incredible gift to them, and through them to the world.  That said, it's vitally important to respect and support homosexuals. Just not at the expense of another group of people.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Janice Ulangca</span></div><blockquote style="border-left: #000000 2px solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr"><div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: 10pt arial; background: #e4e4e4; font-color: black;"><strong>From:</strong> <a title="coevolutionacademy at juno.com" href="mailto:coevolutionacademy at juno.com">coevolutionacademy at juno.com</a></div><div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>To:</strong> <a title="oe at wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net">oe at wedgeblade.net</a></div><div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:43 PM</div><div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism</div><div></div><div><span style="color: #000080; font-size: medium;">Here's an interesting perspective on literalism! Passed on from a professor at the Universtiy of Virginia. Some of you may have seen this before. It made Balse and I laugh out loud.</span><br><br></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Occasionally I get things that just have to be passed on. </span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong><span style="color: black;">Owning a Canadian</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></strong></span></div><div><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><br></span><span style="color: black;">In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22.</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, written by a US resident, and posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Dear Dr. Laura:</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></div><div> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></span><span style="color: black;">Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></div><div> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></span><span style="color: black;">I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.</span><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></div><div> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Your adoring fan,</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">James M. Kauffman,</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">University of Virginia</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"></span> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: black;">PS (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian)</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"> </div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; background: white;"> </div><div><br><br>---------- Original Message ----------<br>From: "Bill Schlesinger" <pvida at whc.net><br>To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net><br>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism<br>Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:13:47 -0600<br><br><p> </p><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">The conservative argument is that the literal �fall� is a prerequisite to Paul�s analogy of the �New Adam� role of the Christ in his cosmology.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"></span> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Bill Schlesinger</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Project Vida</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">3607 Rivera Avenue</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;" lang="ES">El Paso, TX 79905</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;" lang="ES">(915) 533-7057 x 207</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;" lang="ES">(915) 533-7158 FAX</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"><a href="mailto:pvida at whc.net"><span lang="ES">pvida at whc.net</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #000080;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #000080; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">www.projectvidaelpaso.org</span></span></p></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><hr size="2"></span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></span></strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Herman Greene<br><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></strong> Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:04 AM<br><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></strong> 'Order Ecumenical Community'<br><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></strong> [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism</span></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"></span> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">NPR just had an announcement about a coming program. It said we will look at whether Adam and Eve were real persons. This is ultimately about whether the fundamental ideas of Christianity are true are not.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Is the real personhood of Adam and Eve one of Christianity�s fundamental ideas? (Well perhaps one of its conservative or liberal fundamental-IST ideas.)</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Herman</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span> </p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">_____________________________________________</span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">Herman Greene</span></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">2516 Winningham Drive</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><div class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">Chapel Hill</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">, NC 27516</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span></div><p> </p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">919-929-4116 (h)</span></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">919-624-0579 (c)</span></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">919-942-4358 (f)</span></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">Skype: hgreene-nc</span></span></p><p class="MsoAutoSig" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:hfgreene at mindspring.com">hfgreene at mindspring.com</a> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: small;"></span> </p></p><br><br><span style="color: #000000; font-size: x-small;">____________________________________________________________</span><br><a style="text-decoration: none;" href="http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4e4163b26caaa4ee24ast06vuc" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: #004080; font-size: small;"><strong>Penny Stock Jumping 3000%</strong></span><br><a style="text-decoration: none;" href="http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4e4163b26caaa4ee24ast06vuc" target="_blank"><span style="color: #000000; font-size: x-small;">Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!<br><a style="color: #000000;" href="http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4e4163b26caaa4ee24ast06vuc" target="_blank">AwesomePennyStocks.com</a></span></a></span></a> <p><hr><p> </p>_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br>OE at wedgeblade.net<br>http://wedgeblade.net/mailman/listinfo/oe_wedgeblade.net</p></div></div></blockquote></html>
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