[Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

Thu Aug 11 13:05:26 EDT 2011

I wonder if a 4th element, and important one, is a community of people identified with that story?

Jim Wiegel

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--- On Thu, 8/11/11, R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 5:13 AM

If you go back to the John Knox paper "The Event and the Story," he tells us that every "true" story, like the Christ story, has three elements; the historical (what happened), the ontological (what significance it had) and the mythological (how it was "freighted" metaphorically, etc.) and that the story is not complete if any one of these is missing.

Randy

From: Janice Ulangca <aulangca at stny.rr.com>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

Thanks for your response, Rose Anne.  I'm not offended - and I do agree that literalism is absurd.  Searching for truth beyond the literal is needed if we are to find the riches in any religious tradition.  Marcus Borg tells the story of a native American elder who began his account of his nation's Creation story with this:  "I don't know if it really happened this way - but I do know this story is true."  Ideally I'd like Dr. Kauffman to go on after pointing out these literal absurdities to say a few things about the insights contributed to the world by the community Leviticus helped to create and keep in being - and how their understanding of these teachings have changed over time.  But that's a lot to ask.
Janice

----- Original Message ----- 
From: coevolutionacademy at juno.com 
To: oe at wedgeblade.net 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

Janice,
I don't feel any disrespect is meant in the letter. I have Jewish heritage, in fact my daughter Angela was named in a Temple as a baby . I think the intent is to point out the absurdity of taking everything the Bible says literally in this day and age. And especially when it means hurtful actions in a time when what's need is love. Many of the rules created in those times may have had a necessary purpose. I suppose the social climate of our times does cause sensitivity to this kind of humor. It could be taken the wrong way. Sorry if it offended you or anyone else. That certainly was not the intent.
Grace and Peace,
Rose Anne

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Janice Ulangca" <aulangca at stny.rr.com>
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:22:58 -0400

The first time I heard something similar was on the TV program The West Wing.  The US president was quoting some of these points to a right-wing literalist Christian.  Then I had no problem feeling very satisfied with these gotcha arguments, and laughing freely. Now I do have a problem -probably because I now have some Jewish friends who I admire very much. I don't know how to talk adequately about what the Torah (the law) means to them. But the folks I have in mind have quite a bit of knowledge about the ancient setting in which the Torah was written down.  Many of us Christians have things that we take literally, too.  Does Resurrection really mean the resusitation of a dead body?  Not to me - and not to Christian scholars who make the most sense to me (Marcus Borg and Jack Spong, for two).  Dr. Amy-Jill Levine is coming to our area to speak in September, and I
 much look forward to her workshop on early common era Judaism - the millieu in which Jesus lived and taught.  She is a terrific speaker - has been on some of the Living the Questions DVDs.  An observant Orthodox Jew, she is a professor of New Testament  (and Judaic Studies) at Vanderbilt University Seminary.  So Dr. Kauffman, the hint of smug superiority that underlies your clever questions does bother me, because it makes fun of what Jews see as an incredible gift to them, and through them to the world.  That said, it's vitally important to respect and support homosexuals. Just not at the expense of another group of people.
Janice Ulangca

----- Original Message -----
From: coevolutionacademy at juno.com
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

Here's an interesting perspective on literalism! Passed on from a professor at the Universtiy of Virginia. Some of you may have seen this before. It made Balse and I laugh out loud.

Occasionally I get things that just have to be passed on. 

Owning a Canadian 

In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22. 

The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, written by a US resident, and posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative: 

Dear Dr. Laura: 

 Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate. 

 I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan,
James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education
University of Virginia

PS (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian)

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bill Schlesinger" <pvida at whc.net>
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:13:47 -0600

The conservative argument is that the literal �fall� is a prerequisite to Paul�s analogy of the �New Adam� role of the Christ in his cosmology.

Bill Schlesinger
Project Vida
3607 Rivera Avenue
El Paso, TX 79905
(915) 533-7057 x 207
(915) 533-7158 FAX
pvida at whc.net
www.projectvidaelpaso.org

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:04 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: [Oe List ...] Further to liberals and Biblical literalism

NPR just had an announcement about a coming program. It said we will look at whether Adam and Eve were real persons. This is ultimately about whether the fundamental ideas of Christianity are true are not.

Is the real personhood of Adam and Eve one of Christianity�s fundamental ideas? (Well perhaps one of its conservative or liberal fundamental-IST ideas.)

Herman

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