[Oe List ...] Event and Story Quote re literalism

[LAURELCG at aol.com]

I grew up in a fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ. Fred and I  met 
at Abilene Christian College. The College Church  cornerstone reads, 
"Founded in Jerusalem,  Pentecost, A.D. 33." I  took the New Testament as literal 
history. Then I moved to thinking in  metaphors and mythic truths. Since 
I've had a number of courses in Matrix  Energetics, I think it's possible that 
Jesus, whether historical or a first  century super hero archetype, was able 
to tap into the Zero Point  Field to manipulate matter. Everything in the 
Universe is energy, which can  and does change from particle to wave and back.
 
I'm just saying. We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.
Jann  
 
 
In a message dated 8/11/2011 2:27:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
rcwmbw at yahoo.com writes:

 
I like  Jack's word event.  People draw ontological conclusions and  tell 
stories only about things that really happen to them, encounters with the  
world--events, happenings, historical occurences.  The Christ "event",  the 
grace "happening."  That does not preclude "literalism."  In the  art form 
conversation (ORID) we always start with objective reality, what  happened.  We 
may disagree about the significance and the metaphors and  even what 
happened.  But everyone would agree, something happened, and  that's the starting 
point.  We don't start with abstract theory.   The trouble is, there's not 
much objective reporting of historical events, but  some people think if it 
didn't happen exactly as reported (which time and by  whom?) then it has no 
ontological validity, no deeper truth about the way  life is.  Something 
happened to a community of people after which they  were never the same.  They 
attached significance to the happening as they  experienced it and told 
stories about it.  Those who heard the story  reflected on their own experience, 
and in light of that reflection, through  the story, on their own 
experience, they had a change of heart and mind  and began to do things differently 
and their lives were never the same  either. Gratefully, most don't put their 
faith in the  factual inerrancy of the details of the historical event, but 
I  don't know how to think of experience, Christian or otherwise,  without 
some kind of precipitious event.
 
I appreciate everyone's  honest reflections and the quality of the 
conversation, for whatever  it's all worth.
 
Randy



 

From: Rod Rippel  <rodrippel at cox.net>
To:  Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:21  PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...]  Event and Story Quote re literalism

  
What's at stake for Christianity in the  historical veracity of the story 
would seem to be wrapped up in the  Incarnation.  If Incarnation is "the 
coming into being of a community" as  an "embodiment" of spirit, then Gnosticism 
can also claim to be an authentic  response to a version of the story 
without recourse to historicity.  Is  this not similar to the self concsious 
Church "naming the Name" as opposed to  a community having the same experince 
but not rooting their story in a  historical happening?  In either case the 
question of historical is  difficult to establish.  Literalism removes the 
Mystery and replaces it  with a 'historical account' which rapidly becomes 
scripture (read  bibliolatry).  
    I guess my point (if I have  one!) is that literature is full of 
fictional accounts and "events" that have  precipitated spirit responses from 
individuals and led to communities coming  into existence.  That retelling the 
story recreates (in listeners) the  events of the original story is a dynamic 
built into reality and deepens the  mystery and richness of 'spirit 
movements' of all kinds and in all  times.  Can any old fiction do this?  I don't 
think so. My  contention is that literalism robs people of this depth and 
struggle and  substututes a trite explanation.
    
 
Rod


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