[Oe List ...] Event and Story Quote re literalism

Fri Aug 12 04:08:30 EDT 2011

You said, "I'm just saying. We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto."

Yes, Jann, it is kind of humbling for me . . . I STILL haven't figured out the LAST century and now . . .  :)

Jim Wiegel

Life isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be life.  -- James Michener, The Source

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--- On Thu, 8/11/11, LAURELCG at aol.com <LAURELCG at aol.com> wrote:

From: LAURELCG at aol.com <LAURELCG at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Event and Story Quote re literalism
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:15 PM

I grew up in a fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ. Fred and I 
met at Abilene Christian College. The College Church 
cornerstone reads, "Founded in Jerusalem,  Pentecost, A.D. 33." I 
took the New Testament as literal history. Then I moved to thinking in 
metaphors and mythic truths. Since I've had a number of courses in Matrix 
Energetics, I think it's possible that Jesus, whether historical or a first 
century super hero archetype, was able to tap into the Zero Point 
Field to manipulate matter. Everything in the Universe is energy, which can 
and does change from particle to wave and back.

I'm just saying. We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.
Jann  

In a message dated 8/11/2011 2:27:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
rcwmbw at yahoo.com writes:

  I like 
  Jack's word event.  People draw ontological conclusions and 
  tell stories only about things that really happen to them, encounters with the 
  world--events, happenings, historical occurences.  The Christ "event", 
  the grace "happening."  That does not preclude "literalism."  In the 
  art form conversation (ORID) we always start with objective reality, what 
  happened.  We may disagree about the significance and the metaphors and 
  even what happened.  But everyone would agree, something happened, and 
  that's the starting point.  We don't start with abstract theory.  
  The trouble is, there's not much objective reporting of historical events, but 
  some people think if it didn't happen exactly as reported (which time and by 
  whom?) then it has no ontological validity, no deeper truth about the way 
  life is.  Something happened to a community of people after which they 
  were never the same.  They attached significance to the happening as they 
  experienced it and told stories about it.  Those who heard the story 
  reflected on their own experience, and in light of that reflection, through 
  the story, on their own experience, they had a change of heart and mind 
  and began to do things differently and their lives were never the same 
  either. Gratefully, most don't put their faith in the 
  factual inerrancy of the details of the historical event, but I 
  don't know how to think of experience, Christian or otherwise, 
  without some kind of precipitious event.

  I appreciate everyone's 
  honest reflections and the quality of the conversation, for whatever 
  it's all worth.

  Randy

  From: Rod Rippel 
  <rodrippel at cox.net>
To: 
  Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:21 
  PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 
  Event and Story Quote re literalism

  What's at stake for Christianity in the 
  historical veracity of the story would seem to be wrapped up in the 
  Incarnation.  If Incarnation is "the coming into being of a community" as 
  an "embodiment" of spirit, then Gnosticism can also claim to be an authentic 
  response to a version of the story without recourse to historicity.  Is 
  this not similar to the self concsious Church "naming the Name" as opposed to 
  a community having the same experince but not rooting their story in a 
  historical happening?  In either case the question of historical is 
  difficult to establish.  Literalism removes the Mystery and replaces it 
  with a 'historical account' which rapidly becomes scripture (read 
  bibliolatry).  
      I guess my point (if I have 
  one!) is that literature is full of fictional accounts and "events" that have 
  precipitated spirit responses from individuals and led to communities coming 
  into existence.  That retelling the story recreates (in listeners) the 
  events of the original story is a dynamic built into reality and deepens the 
  mystery and richness of 'spirit movements' of all kinds and in all 
  times.  Can any old fiction do this?  I don't think so. My 
  contention is that literalism robs people of this depth and struggle and 
  substututes a trite explanation.

  Rod
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