[Oe List ...] Salmon:Wiegel

Sat Jun 4 07:27:13 CDT 2011

Here is a link to Kierkegaard's Paper if you want the full context of the
statement

http://www.turksheadreview.com/library/texts/kierkegaard-sicknessdeath.html

Chapter 1: That Despair is the Sickness Unto Death

A. Despair is a Sickness in the Spirit, in the Self, and So It May Assume a
Triple Form: in Despair at Not Being Conscious of Having a Self (Despair
Improperly So Called); in Despair at Not Willing to Be Oneself; in Despair
at Willing to Be Oneself.

Man is spirit. But what is spirit? Spirit is the self. But what is the self?
The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that
in the relation [which accounts for it] that the relation relates itself to
its own self; the self is not the relation but [consists in the fact] that
the relation relates itself to its own self. Man is a synthesis of the
infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and
necessity, in short it is a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two
factors. So regarded, man is not yet a self.

In the relation between two, the relation is the third term as a negative
unity, and the two relate themselves to the relation, and in the relation to
the relation; such a relation is that between soul and body, when man is
regarded as soul. If on the contrary the relation relates itself to its own
self, the relation is then the positive third term, and this is the self.

Such a relation which relates itself to its own self (that is to say, a
self) must either have constituted itself or have been constituted by
another.

If this relation which relates itself to its own self is constituted by
another, the relation doubtless is the third term, but this relation (the
third term) is in turn a relation relating itself to that which constituted
the whole relation.

Such a derived, constituted, relation is the human self, a relation which
relates itself to its own self, and in relating itself to its own self
relates itself to another. Hence it is that there can be two forms of
despair properly so called. If the human self had constituted itself, there
could be a question only of one form, that of not willing to be one's own
self, of willing to get rid of oneself, but there would be no question of
despairingly willing to be oneself. This formula [i.e. that the self is
constituted by another] is the expression for the total dependence of the
relation (the self namely), the expression for the fact that the self cannot
of itself attain and remain in equilibrium and rest by itself, but only by
relating itself to that Power which constituted the whole relation. Indeed,
so far is it from being true that this second form of despair (despair at
willing to be one's own self) denotes only a particular kind of despair,
that on the contrary all despair can in the last analysis be reduced to
this. If a man in despair is as he thinks conscious of his despair, does not
talk about it meaninglessly as of something which befell him (pretty much as
when a man who suffers from vertigo talks with nervous self-deception about
a weight upon his head or about its being like something falling upon him,
etc., this weight and this pressure being in fact not something external but
an inverse reflection from an inward experience), and if by himself and by
himself only he would abolish the despair, then by all the labor he expends
he is only laboring himself deeper into a deeper despair. The
disrelationship of despair is not a simple disrelationship but a
disrelationship in a relation which relates itself to its own self and is
constituted by another, so that the disrelationship in that self-relation
reflects itself infinitely in the relation to the Power which constituted
it.

This then is the formula which describes the condition of the self when
despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to its own self and by
willing to be itself the self is grounded transparently in the Power which
posited it.

2011/6/4 Leroy Philbrook <yearexploringservice at gmail.com>

> SK "The Sickness unto death" Part First.  The quote we used was an abridged
> version of section A.
> Roy
>
> 2011/6/4 W. J. <synergi at yahoo.com>
>
> Definitely not 'Paul Sartre' aka Jean-Paul Sartre.
>> Try S. Kierkegaard instead.
>> Marshall
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* M. George Walters <m.george.walters at verizon.net>
>>
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>> *Sent:* Fri, June 3, 2011 4:25:31 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon:Wiegel
>>
>> To David Walters
>>
>> Paul Sartre – father of modern psychology.
>>
>>
>>
>> With kindest regards.
>>
>>
>>
>> M. George Walters
>>
>>
>>
>> Resurgence Publishing Corporation
>>
>> 4240 Sandy Shores Dr
>>
>> Lutz, FL 33558
>>
>> USA
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>> Tel: +1 (813) 948-7267
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>> Fax: +1 (813) 333-1787
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>> Mob: +1 (813) 505-9041
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>> URL: www.ResurgencePublishing.com
>>
>> Professional Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgwalters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On
>> Behalf Of *David Walters
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 03, 2011 00:15
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon:Wiegel
>>
>>
>>
>> When I was in the Academy, someone walked up to the chalk board to begin
>> his lecture by quoting some existentialist fron the 19th
>> century, which seemed so odd that he would do so while trying to leture a
>> group of people who where there to learn to be 20th century churchmen. Can't
>> remember who it was. I'm sure it wasn't Gene Marshal because he wasn't
>> wearing surgical gloves due to his allergy to chalk. I was probaly Lingo or
>> Shinn.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway back to the quote. It went something like ..... When Salmon relates
>> himself to himself, and by willing  to relate himself to himself, he somehow
>> grounds himself in his own theological jargon. I think I got that right, but
>> sometimes late at night I get things turned around a little bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Grace an peace
>>
>>
>> -David Walters
>>
>> --- wsalmon at cox.net wrote:
>>
>> From: "William Salmon" <wsalmon at cox.net>
>> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>> Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon:Wiegel
>> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 22:20:29 -0500
>>
>> Jim--
>>
>>     Perhaps we'll need a little "Weigle" room on this one.
>>
>>     It's best to let Rendle speak for himself--so check out the article
>> and buy the book.
>>
>>     However, I believe he would say that what the 10 million are hanging
>> on to is an illusion of reality -- very bad to live a lie, eh what? Letting
>> go means to replace the "contemporary" methods with a new purpose rather
>> than just new methods.
>>
>>     OK, OK, I know, what is the new purpose? Go back to my first sentence
>> and follow instructions.
>>
>>     I did not say he had all the answers--that's my position. I did say
>> that what I read ABOUT HIS BOOK appeared to be a sign of hope amidst all of
>> the crap that is presented as authentic change.
>>
>>     In particular I Iiked the image of the Wilderness being a place of
>> renewal and preparation for something new. That, my friend, is something
>> new to me. For me the desert is the description of where we live as *
>> human** folk (on Vacation);* the Promised Land --my Spiritual Oasis--is
>> where *we fulfill our intended creation to live the humane and gracious
>> life (at Home) while working for justice and mercy. Thank you very much,
>> R. Niebuhr. *
>>
>>     Inner Peas,
>>
>>     Bill
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
>>
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2011 6:10 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Signs of hope?
>>
>>
>>
>> "For anyone still connected to a mainline church" -- how many is that,
>> would you guess?  10 million in the US??  5??
>>
>> Your statement seems to suggest a proposal that the best case would be for
>> these folks to quit hanging on and  . . . what??
>>
>> Jim Wiegel
>>
>> Life isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be life. -- James Michener, The
>> Source
>>
>> 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
>> +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
>> jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
>>
>>
>>
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>> ToP Facilitation Methods, May 17-18, Sept 20-21, 2011
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>> program is available in Phoenix in 2011-12. Program begins on Oct 12-14,
>> 2011. See our website for further details.
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 6/1/11, George Packard <george.packard1 at rcn.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: George Packard <george.packard1 at rcn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Signs of hope?
>> To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 3:33 PM
>>
>> Right on Pastor Bill!
>>
>> For anyone still connected to a mainline church Wedland"s stuff is a
>> fantastic resource. She has consistently maintained a positive "enlightened
>> pew perspective" through out the last two decades.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] *On
>> Behalf Of *William Salmon
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2011 12:13 PM
>> *To:* OE at wedgeblade.net
>> *Subject:* [Oe List ...] Salmon: Signs of hope?
>>
>> Colleagues All--
>>
>>     Recently, I've noted a slight shift taking place from all of the
>> negativity of the collapse to something that might approach a tiny light of
>> hope.
>>
>>     I've attached a newsletter written by Barbara Wendland, "Connections."
>> Wendland is a theologically trained laywoman (Perkins School of Theology)
>> and a thorn-in-the-side of the traditional church. For years--maybe 30--she
>> has written her newsletter exploring the voice of a progressive critic of
>> things-as-they-are.
>>
>>     This month's letter reviews a book by Guy Rendle (seems familiar--but
>> I can't tell you why) titled, "Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for
>> Mainline Churches."
>>
>>     His use of the wilderness is patterned after that of the Exodus in
>> which he sees people, ". . . being shaped as a new people with a new
>> identity, fresh purpose, and. . .a new hope."
>>
>>     See what you think. If you haven'et send an email to Wendland to a
>> free subscription to her newsletter, and see what you think.
>>
>>     Inner Peace,
>>
>>     Bill
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
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>
>
> --
> Roy Philbrook
> Year Exploring Service
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-- 
Grace & Peace
David Yost
720-365-6698

"What life means to us is determined not so much by what life brings to us
as by the attitude we bring to life; not so much by what happens to us as
our reaction to what happens". Lewis Dunning
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