[Oe List ...] Still here

Wed Oct 19 11:27:47 EDT 2011

Well said Herman. I'm not sure about bringing OWS into being. But it seems like it's a movement coming out of a deep shift taking place occasioned by Being. That was the gist of the call from Barbara Marx Hubbard, Jean Houston and several other evoltionary thinkers  on Saturday with more than 14,000 people from 133 countries listening in and participating. 

Personally I feel like my main work if I want to serve Being - is to get in touch deeply with my essence - which connects to the Source - in order to hear my intuition guiding me - and that when individuals do that - they will manfiest outwardly as a group or shift moving in the same direction. I don't feel like I do very well getting into the place of essence or soul. Sometimes through meditation or meditative moments I catch a glimpse of it.

Well - I really didn't mean to do this dialogue. These are just my thoughts and feelings and I dont' know if they have any value to anyone else. Joe's quote says it all by itself.

I'm writing a novel so I will put my energy there.
Love and Peace,
Rose Anne
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Herman Greene" <hfgreene at mindspring.com>
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:57:09 -0400

I guess I’m seeming rather contrary and spirit denying. I don’t mean to be. I think what Mathews was address was that feeling we had that we weren’t succeeding. What was later addressed through such expressions as “the dark night of the soul.” He was saying we shouldn’t be too concerned about whether we were personally or collectively doing our part and having us be aware that control was well beyond any efforts we might make and was in the hands of what he called “being itself,” and what could also be called mystery, spirit, the larger dynamics of history or other things.

Where it addresses us today is in wondering if what we did was sufficient, adequate or right. The message today is that what we did, and what we are still doing, goes forward in ways in which we can’t even begin to be aware . . . . From this standpoint, maybe we did bring into being OWS.

Herman 

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Herman Greene
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:42 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here

We were a movement, even are a movement. I don’t have the slightest idea of what “THE movement” is.

Yes, movements only succeed due to their grounding in a larger dynamic/mystery, and their work is catalytic.

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of coevolutionacademy at juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:31 AM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here

Joe was always speaking to the group but it seems to me that the point he was making was about our relationship to Spirit, Mystery, Source, God - whatever name we have for Being - whether individual or group. About being the servants of Being or the Divine - we called it the Mystery.

To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:49:05 -0400
As I said, Joe was speaking to something that was going on in the group.

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of coevolutionacademy at juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:09 AM
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here

Thanks so much George for sharing this wonderful quote. "...no person or group of people have ever done anything but failed. It is Being itself that succeeds in us." That seems to me to be the essence. When Being or the Mystery moves and we are in alignment with it, and in a state of "profound awareness" then we do what is needed - not from the rational mind or ego - at first - but from being connected and guided. When we are in touch with our inner essence we have more of a chance of manifesting our true purpose. The Journey to the East by Herman Hesse popped into my mind this morning after I read the quote. What happened when Leo lost the connection and even the memory of the Mystery?
Grace & Peace,
Rose Anne Sands

---------- Original Message ----------From: George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:44:43 -0500

I ran across this quote in one of JWM's speeches in the upcoming Bending History 2.  Kinda interesting to the string.
"I am clearer than ever that we are not and will not be a movement. A movement may come but it won't be our movement. I see ourselves as a happening. I see ourselves as having the potential of being an explosion that could bring forth in our day a new form of profound awareness, effective engagement and an absolute plethora of humanness. If we become such an explosion, let us remember no person or group of people have ever done anything but failed. It is Being itself that succeeds in us and allows us to participate in the success of Being."
GLOBAL COMMUNITY FORUM & GLOBAL SOCIAL DEMONSTRATION
Joseph W. Mathews
1976

George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Mobile 512/252-2756
geowanda at earthlink.net
"Stay hungry, stay foolish"  Whole Earth Catalog via Steve Jobs

 On Oct 18, 2011, at 9:20 AM, M. George Walters wrote:

While in India we taught the International RS-I (1969-1971) before Carol and I went to SFO where we worked with the LCX Galaxies. In the curriculum in the states these were split into two different courses. I-RS-I had a heavy focus on the parish mission and I loved it. If we were to develop anything new that started with theological grounding, it might be like putting a frontend on ToP that focused on the understanding Randy is talking about and the Sense of secularity that is needed to transcend doctrinalism, institutionalism etc.

On the issue of compartmentalization I am always amazed at the smoking break section adjacent to the cancer wards in hospitals where the nurses and doctors go immediately after surgery.

With kindest regards.

M. George Walters

Resurgence Publishing Corporation
4240 Sandy Shores Dr
Lutz, FL 33558
USA
Tel: +1 (813) 948-7267
Fax: +1 (813) 333-1787
Mob: +1 (813) 505-9041

URL: www.ResurgencePublishing.com
Professional Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgwalters

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jaime R Vergara 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 09:28
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here

Randy's question is well phrased. 

Visited the westside on February '66 (from Asbury Seminary in Wilmore KY) but did not really hear the "no-messiah messiah" until the '68 assassination of MLK while at SMU Perkins in Dallas, and later in the year, resolved to be a 'global citizen' with the 'earthrise' of Apollo 8 among residents of the Faith and Life Community House in Greensboro, N.C..  Finally joined EI Manila in '72 to live out the Neibuhr church dynamic in and outside (mostly) the institutional form (serendipitously on the same day that Marcos declared Martial Law in the Philippines).  The turn to the world saved my anarchic iconoclosm but I was under no illusion about 'bending history'; a two-month stint in Maharastra made it clear that whatever I did was not going to amount into anything piddly (regardless of glowing Prior reports) but that my 'sanctification' was simply the absolute freedom to decide to "just do it."

Doing it, or being the church, is both a personal resolve and a social reformulation, or as Brian Stanfield noted in his Courage to Lead, transform self, transform society.

The question then requires both a testimonial and methods-manual response.

The power of the Marshalls and the Realistic Living folks is the lucidity that one walks one talks, otherwise, it is only a head-trip.  We differ in practice only at the level of metaphors:  RL and the Marshalls still adhere to the images of the Christian witness, albeit, metaphorically translated.  I've ordered Chinese!

Clarity about the 'church dynamic,' however, is in our bones.  (Returned my Methodist ordination to CalPAC in 2002.)Am living out the dynamic with third World foreign students (mostly Moslem and Christian adherents, along with secular socialist) and Chinese students whose only sole purpose in life is "to make much money so I can take care of my folks and travel with my spouse around the world."

How am I being the church?  Ask me again in a year!  Might have a manual then. 

Meanwhile, I seem to recall giving up Occupying Main St. Methodist Church long time ago.  But no mistake about it: I am being the church!

Turning back to Randy, Bud, Karen and the rest of the listserv - might not a fruitful conversation be on what we have or are doing (knowing, too) in being the church?  As to the reason how "turn to the world" happened in the EI family - don't know and don't really care, because I did, and I am grateful.

j'aime la vie
China
From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Please allow me to raise an honest question in the midst of this conversation.  I'm not trying to ring anyone's bell.  There are two things that come to my mind out of the church section of RS-1.  One is that one of the perversions of the institutional church was/is that it had abdicated its mission to serve the world in favor of building itself as an institution--"institutionalism" I think we called it.  Second, in studying HRN's paper, The Church as Social Pioneer," we concluded that when Niebuhr used the word "church" he was pointing, not to an institutional form, but to a social dynamic.  So wherever you saw a group which "in its own thinking, organization and action...functions as a world society, undivided by race, class and national interests," (one of HRN's descriptive phrases) that was the "church" (little "c"), whether or not it had a steeple with a cross.

No doubt the institutional church is indeed still greatly in need of renewal, by some estimates, with local exceptions, maybe even "beyond" renewal.  So here's my question.  Instead of trying to renew an institution, that is clearly more burdened with dogma, ideology, hierarchy, gender-ism, etc. than most, just for the sake of the institution, why not relate to and serve those groups and communities that are already awake, engaged, creating positive change, and doing, in today's terms, what Niebuhr described then as the "church" dynamic? (I believe there are many such communities but we have to search them out.)  My assessment of the crisis created by the "turn to the world" is, we never got beyond the abstraction of "world" in order to decide in any practical sense what or who we were in fact turning to.  I sense that the national ICAs and ICAI are struggling with that issue today.

Again, I'm not grinding an axe here.  This is an honest question posed for the sake of soliciting new insights in the midst of this dialogue about a very important issue.

Randy Williams

From: "KarenBueno at aol.com" <KarenBueno at aol.com>
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here

"the Church is at least as much in need for renewal as it was in the 1970s."   Ain't it the truf, Bud.  Those of us who are still working in ordinary local churches, those that RS1 did not reach and make an impact, can surely agree.  And the course about Progressive Christianity is a great need.  It would probably take as huge a maneuver as it took to put RS1 into history to create and disseminate such a course.

Will our beloved Christianity die, if it does not change (as Bishop Spong writes)?  And those good-hearted folks who still show up on Sunday morning to worship and study, those good-hearted women who still show up at the women's groups will probably just disappear into history.  The United Methodist Women, in their district and conference and global bodies, if not in the local churches, seem to be able to make an "end run" around theology and step forward to do justice activities.  That is why I continue to work there.

I doubt that a weekend course, or maybe any format of a teaching method, (as books, study group curriculums, etc.) will reach enough people to make a difference.  I think it will need to be something that explodes on the internet, in order to catch the attention of those who might be able to listen. 

So many seem to be able to put all of their scientific learnings into one box, and then put their faith understandings locked away somewhere else in their brains.  When people don't have to confront the difference between the two, they don't necessarily think about it. 

And those who understand that scientific understandings contradict orthodox Christianity seem as likely to just quit the church as to try to reinterpret the faith.

I'm guessing that the lack of responses to your proposal is a lack of vision, not a lack of interest from our colleagues, about how such a movement would be structured.  

Karen Bueno  (active with EI/ICA since 1967)

In a message dated 10/17/2011 1:39:57 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rev..bud at mac.com writes:
Several days ago I posted for the first time on this listserv. I want to let you know I am still here. Thanks for the number of you who responded to my emails in my mission to try to create a transformational course for Progressive Christians. I haven't got back to all of you yet. I will, but I have been trying to catch up on having been out of touch with you for over 30 years. Right now I'm going through the archives to see where you have been in those years. I've come across an issue that had made me reflect on my own experience.

I read with sympathy the responses of some members of the movement who had just been laid off in 2007 by the ICA. They felt there was an injustice. An action was taken that was not corporately decided. They felt they were 'riffed', just like they were workers in some hierarchical corporation rather than in a community that made decisions corporately.  

This made me remember how we who were part of the Local Church Experiment felt when the movement took the 'turn to the world'. We were riffed. And we had had no say. It was just reported back that the decision had been made, like it was coming down in a hierarchical decision from Rome. But in this case, the Order had convinced us all that decisions were to be made not only intentionally but corporately. Those of us in the churches were left high and dry.

I enjoyed the emails where Brother Van's song was reconstructed on the listserv. If the clergy and laity in the LCX could have added to Spirit Songs it might have included: 
    "It isn't so easy believing, you'd leave after all we've been through. 
        It's breaking my heart to remember the Dreams we depended upon. 
    You're leaving a slow dying ember; I'll miss you my love when you've gone."

Reading Slicker's memories of the beginning of the Order reminded me of how central the renewal of the Church was in its reason for being. So it was no little shift to desert the churches when you took the 'turn to the world'.

There had been no place to raise a couple questions back then: How was this turn decided? Who decided it? Why were those of us who had made the commitment to renew the church through the EI methodology not included in the decision? 

In reading the prologue to the LCX on the Golden Pathway DVD I'm struck that the Church is at least as much in need for renewal as it was in the 1970s. 

Grace and Peace,

Bud Tillinghast

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