[Oe List ...] Still here

Wed Oct 19 12:29:26 EDT 2011

My aging mind cannot translate OWS.  Please help.

I find I must put my energy with some group that is working regularly, or I 
 just sit in my chair and read about the way it ought to be.  At present  
that group is my local United Methodist church, where I am making noise about 
 becoming a reconciling congregation--publishing a welcoming statement to 
the  LGBTQ community--and beginning an Hispanic ministry at our church.  I 
also  am working with a group to influence the delegates to General Conference 
to  broaden our language in the Methodist Discipline to become inclusive of 
the gay  community.

Can individuals or tiny groups make a difference?  Or does it take the  
numbers we gathered in the 60s and 70s, who continue to act today to make a  
difference?

Karen Bueno

In a message dated 10/19/2011 9:29:04 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
coevolutionacademy at juno.com writes:

Well said Herman. I'm not  sure about bringing OWS into being. But it seems 
like it's a movement coming  out of a deep shift taking place occasioned by 
Being. That was the gist of the  call from Barbara Marx Hubbard, Jean 
Houston and several other evoltionary  thinkers  on Saturday with more than 
14,000 people from 133 countries  listening in and participating. 

Personally I feel like my main work  if I want to serve Being - is to get 
in touch deeply with my essence - which  connects to the Source - in order to 
hear my intuition guiding me - and that  when individuals do that - they 
will manfiest outwardly as a group or shift  moving in the same direction. I 
don't feel like I do very well getting into  the place of essence or soul. 
Sometimes through meditation or meditative  moments I catch a glimpse of it.

Well - I really didn't mean to do this  dialogue. These are just my 
thoughts and feelings and I dont' know if they  have any value to anyone else. 
Joe's quote says it all by  itself.

I'm  writing a novel so I will put my energy there.
Love and Peace,
Rose Anne
----------  Original Message ----------
From: "Herman Greene"  <hfgreene at mindspring.com>
To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'"  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date:  Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:57:09 -0400

I guess I’m seeming  rather contrary and spirit denying. I don’t mean to 
be. I think what Mathews  was address was that feeling we had that we weren’t 
succeeding. What was later  addressed through such expressions as “the dark 
night of the soul.” He was  saying we shouldn’t be too concerned about 
whether we were personally or  collectively doing our part and having us be 
aware that control was well  beyond any efforts we might make and was in the 
hands of what he called “being  itself,” and what could also be called 
mystery, spirit, the larger dynamics of  history or other things. 
Where it addresses us  today is in wondering if what we did was sufficient, 
adequate or right. The  message today is that what we did, and what we are 
still doing, goes forward  in ways in which we can’t even begin to be aware 
. . . . From this standpoint,  maybe we did bring into being OWS. 
Herman   

____________________________________

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net  [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On  
Behalf Of Herman Greene
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011  10:42 AM
To: 'Order  Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still  here
We were a movement,  even are a movement. I don’t have the slightest idea 
of what “THE movement”  is. 
Yes, movements only  succeed due to their grounding in a larger 
dynamic/mystery, and their work is  catalytic. 

____________________________________

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net  [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On  
Behalf Of coevolutionacademy at juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011  10:31 AM
To:  oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still  here

Joe was always speaking to the group but it seems to  me that the point he 
was making was about our relationship to Spirit, Mystery,  Source, God - 
whatever name we have for Being - whether individual or group.  About being the 
servants of Being or the Divine - we called it the  Mystery.

To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'"  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date:  Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:49:05 -0400

As I said, Joe was  speaking to something that was going on in the group.

____________________________________

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net  [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On 
Behalf Of  coevolutionacademy at juno.com
Sent: Wednesday,  October 19, 2011 9:09 AM
To:  oe at wedgeblade.net
Subject: Re: [Oe  List ...] Still here

Thanks so much George for sharing this wonderful  quote. "...no person or 
group of people have ever done anything but failed. It  is Being itself that 
succeeds in us." That seems to me to be the essence. When  Being or the 
Mystery moves and we are in alignment with it, and in a state of  "profound 
awareness" then we do what is needed - not from the rational mind or  ego - at 
first - but from being connected and guided. When we are in touch  with our 
inner essence we have more of a chance of manifesting our true  purpose. The 
Journey to the East  by Herman Hesse popped into my mind this  morning after 
I read the quote. What happened when Leo lost the  connection and even the 
memory of the Mystery?
Grace & Peace,
Rose  Anne Sands

---------- Original Message ----------From: George  Holcombe 
<geowanda at earthlink.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still here
Date:  Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:44:43 -0500

I ran across this quote in one of JWM's  speeches in the upcoming Bending 
History 2.  Kinda interesting to the  string. 

"I am clearer than ever that  we are not and will not be a movement. A 
movement may come but it won't be our  movement. I see ourselves as a happening. 
I see ourselves as having the  potential of being an explosion that could 
bring forth in our day a new form  of profound awareness, effective 
engagement and an absolute plethora of  humanness. If we become such an explosion, 
let us remember no person or group  of people have ever done anything but 
failed. It is Being itself that succeeds  in us and allows us to participate in 
the success of  Being." 
GLOBAL COMMUNITY FORUM &  GLOBAL SOCIAL DEMONSTRATION 
Joseph W.  Mathews 
1976 

George  Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Mobile  512/252-2756
_geowanda at earthlink.net_ (mailto:geowanda at earthlink.net) 

"Stay hungry,  stay foolish"  Whole Earth Catalog via Steve  Jobs

On Oct 18, 2011, at 9:20 AM, M. George  Walters wrote:

While in India we taught the  International RS-I (1969-1971) before Carol 
and I went to SFO where we worked  with the LCX Galaxies. In the curriculum 
in the states these were split into  two different courses. I-RS-I had a 
heavy focus on the parish mission and I  loved it. If we were to develop 
anything new that started with theological  grounding, it might be like putting a 
frontend on ToP that focused on the  understanding Randy is talking about and 
the Sense of secularity that is  needed to transcend doctrinalism, 
institutionalism  etc.

On the issue of  compartmentalization I am always amazed at the smoking 
break section adjacent  to the cancer wards in hospitals where the nurses and 
doctors go immediately  after surgery.

With kindest  regards.

M.  George Walters

Resurgence  Publishing Corporation

4240 Sandy Shores  Dr

Lutz, FL  33558

USA

Tel: +1 (813)  948-7267

Fax: +1 (813)  333-1787

Mob: +1 (813)  505-9041

URL: _www.ResurgencePublishing.com_ (http://www.resurgencepublishing.com/) 

Professional  Profile: _http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgwalters_ 
(http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgwalters) 

From: _oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net_ (mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net)  
[mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf  Of Jaime R Vergara 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011  09:28
To: _oe at wedgeblade.net_ (mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net) 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still  here

Randy's question is well  phrased. 

Visited the westside on February  '66 (from Asbury Seminary in Wilmore KY) 
but did not really hear the  "no-messiah messiah" until the '68 
assassination of MLK  while at SMU Perkins in Dallas, and later in the year, resolved to 
 be a 'global citizen' with the 'earthrise' of Apollo 8 among residents of  
the Faith and Life Community House in Greensboro, N.C..  Finally  joined EI 
Manila in '72 to live out the Neibuhr church dynamic in and  outside 
(mostly) the institutional form (serendipitously on the same day that  Marcos 
declared Martial Law in the Philippines).  The turn to the world  saved my 
anarchic iconoclosm but I was under no illusion about 'bending  history'; a 
two-month stint in Maharastra made it clear that whatever I did  was not going to 
amount into anything piddly (regardless of glowing Prior  reports) but that 
my 'sanctification' was simply the absolute freedom to  decide to "just do 
it."

Doing it, or being the church, is  both a personal resolve and a social 
reformulation, or as Brian  Stanfield noted in his Courage to  Lead, transform 
self, transform  society.

The question then requires  both a testimonial and methods-manual  response.

The power of the Marshalls and the  Realistic Living folks is the lucidity 
that one walks one talks, otherwise, it  is only a head-trip.  We differ in 
practice only at the level of  metaphors:  RL and the Marshalls still adhere 
to the images of the  Christian witness, albeit, metaphorically translated. 
 I've ordered  Chinese!

Clarity about the 'church  dynamic,' however, is in our bones.  (Returned 
my Methodist ordination to  CalPAC in 2002.)Am living out the dynamic with 
third World foreign students  (mostly Moslem and Christian adherents, along 
with secular socialist) and  Chinese students whose only sole purpose in life 
is "to make much money so I  can take care of my folks and travel with my 
spouse around the  world."

How am I being the church?   Ask me again in a year!  Might have a manual  
then. 

Meanwhile, I seem to recall giving  up Occupying Main St. Methodist Church 
long time ago.  But no mistake  about it: I am being the church!

Turning back to Randy, Bud, Karen  and the rest of the listserv - might not 
a fruitful conversation be on what we  have or are doing (knowing, too) in 
being the church?  As to the  reason how "turn to the world" happened in the 
EI family - don't know and  don't really care, because I did, and I am  
grateful.

j'aime la  vie

China

____________________________________

From: R Williams <_rcwmbw at yahoo.com_ (mailto:rcwmbw at yahoo.com) >
To: Order  Ecumenical Community <_oe at wedgeblade.net_ 
(mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net) >
Sent: Tuesday,  October 18, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: [Oe  List ...] Still here 

Please allow me to  raise an honest question in the midst of this 
conversation.  I'm not  trying to ring anyone's bell.  There are two things that come 
to my mind  out of the church section of RS-1.  One is that one of the 
perversions of  the institutional church was/is that it had abdicated its 
mission to  serve the world in favor of building itself as an  
institution--"institutionalism" I think we called it.  Second, in  studying HRN's paper, The 
Church as Social Pioneer," we concluded that  when Niebuhr used the word 
"church" he was pointing, not to an institutional  form, but to a social dynamic. 
 So wherever you saw a group which  "in its own thinking, organization and 
action...functions as a world society,  undivided by race, class and 
national interests," (one of HRN's descriptive  phrases) that was the "church" 
(little "c"), whether  or not it had a steeple with a cross.

No doubt the  institutional church is indeed still greatly in need of  
renewal, by some estimates, with local exceptions, maybe even "beyond"  renewal. 
 So here's my question.  Instead of trying to renew an  institution, that 
is clearly more burdened with dogma, ideology,  hierarchy, gender-ism, etc. 
than most, just for the sake of the  institution, why not relate to and serve 
those groups and  communities that are already awake, engaged, creating 
positive  change, and doing, in today's terms, what Niebuhr described  then as 
the "church" dynamic? (I believe there are many such  communities but we 
have to search them out.)  My assessment of the crisis  created by the "turn to 
the world" is, we never got beyond the  abstraction of "world" in order to 
decide in any practical sense what or  who we were in fact turning to.  I 
sense that the national ICAs  and ICAI are struggling with that issue today.

Again, I'm not  grinding an axe here.  This is an honest question posed for 
the sake of  soliciting new insights in the midst of this dialogue about a 
very  important issue.

Randy  Williams

From: "_KarenBueno at aol.com_ (mailto:KarenBueno at aol.com) " 
<_KarenBueno at aol.com_ (mailto:KarenBueno at aol.com) >
To: _oe at wedgeblade.net_ (mailto:oe at wedgeblade.net) 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 5:10  PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Still  here 

"the Church is  at least as much in need for renewal as it was in the 
1970s."    Ain't it the truf, Bud.  Those of us who are still working in ordinary 
 local churches, those that RS1 did not reach and make an impact, can  
surely agree.  And the course about Progressive Christianity is a great  need.  
It would probably take as huge a maneuver as it took to put RS1  into 
history to create and disseminate such a course.

Will our beloved  Christianity die, if it does not change (as Bishop Spong 
writes)?  And  those good-hearted folks who still show up on Sunday morning 
to worship and  study, those good-hearted women who still show up at the 
women's groups will  probably just disappear into history.  The United 
Methodist Women, in  their district and conference and global bodies, if not in the 
local churches,  seem to be able to make an "end run" around theology and 
step forward to do  justice activities.  That is why I continue to work  there.

I doubt that a  weekend course, or maybe any format of a teaching method, 
(as books, study  group curriculums, etc.) will reach enough people to make a 
difference.   I think it will need to be something that explodes on the 
internet, in order  to catch the attention of those who might be able to  
listen. 

So many seem to be  able to put all of their scientific learnings into one 
box, and then put their  faith understandings locked away somewhere else in 
their brains.  When  people don't have to confront the difference between 
the two, they don't  necessarily think about it. 

And those who  understand that scientific understandings contradict 
orthodox Christianity  seem as likely to just quit the church as to try to 
reinterpret the  faith.

I'm guessing that  the lack of responses to your proposal is a lack of 
vision, not a lack of  interest from our colleagues, about how such a movement 
would be  structured.  

Karen Bueno   (active with EI/ICA since 1967)

In a message dated  10/17/2011 1:39:57 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, 
_rev..bud at mac.com_ (mailto:rev..bud at mac.com)  writes:

Several days ago I  posted for the first time on this listserv. I want to 
let you know I am  still here. Thanks for the number of you who responded to 
my emails in my  mission to try to create a transformational course for 
Progressive  Christians. I haven't got back to all of you yet. I will, but I 
have been  trying to catch up on having been out of touch with you for over 30 
years.  Right now I'm going through the archives to see where you have been 
in those  years. I've come across an issue that had made me reflect on my 
own  experience.

I read with sympathy the responses of some members of the  movement who had 
just been laid off in 2007 by the ICA. They felt there was  an injustice. 
An action was taken that was not corporately decided. They  felt they were 
'riffed', just like they were workers in some hierarchical  corporation rather 
than in a community that made decisions  corporately.  

This made me remember how  we who were part of the Local Church Experiment 
felt when the movement took  the 'turn to the world'. We were riffed. And we 
had had no say. It was just  reported back that the decision had been made, 
like it was coming down in a  hierarchical decision from Rome. But in this 
case, the Order had convinced  us all that decisions were to be made not 
only intentionally but  corporately. Those of us in the churches were left high 
and dry.

I  enjoyed the emails where Brother Van's song was reconstructed on the  
listserv. If the clergy and laity in the LCX could have added to Spirit  Songs 
it might have included: 
"It isn't so easy  believing, you'd leave after all we've been through. 
It's breaking my heart to remember the Dreams we depended upon. 
You're leaving a  slow dying ember; I'll miss you my love when you've gone."

Reading  Slicker's memories of the beginning of the Order reminded me of 
how central  the renewal of the Church was in its reason for being. So it was 
no little  shift to desert the churches when you took the 'turn to the  
world'.

There had been no place to raise a couple questions back  then: How was 
this turn decided? Who decided it? Why were those of us who  had made the 
commitment to renew the church through the EI methodology not  included in the 
decision? 

In reading the prologue to  the LCX on the Golden Pathway DVD I'm struck 
that the Church is at least as  much in need for renewal as it was in the 
1970s. 

Grace and Peace,

Bud  Tillinghast

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