[Oe List ...] Linda Vernooy recovery

Wed Sep 14 14:19:41 EDT 2011

Dear Colleagues in the Journey, 
Linda Vernooy is fully recovered and is back in California. Thanks to all
your prayers and great wishes. 
A.M.Noel 
206-321-6274

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Sunny Walker
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 9:26 AM
To: 'Order Ecumenical Community'
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: 9/01/11,Spong: Political Gridlock and
Presidential Politics

Ah yes, I FEEL the pain here – because I often experience it. This is where
my consciousness that I need to LOVE more those I personally find
“misguided” ((knowing it might be me who is misguided even though I
seriously doubt it!!). Other than his frustration with the money changers in
the Temple, I ask myself what good ole Jesus did – how he looked at those he
surely found to be “misguided.” It had to be with just simple, unconditional
love – ahhhh, maybe THAT’s what unconditional means (yeah I know, duh
.) –
love them in spite of their misguidedness – probably not other approach to
them will open hearts and minds, right?

Sorry if I’m not making sense – was up all night finishing taxes (the joys
of the self-employed’s filing of an extension) only to find it didn’t save
and is as dead as those phones we’ve been mentioning. Now is when I am
working to believe wholeheartedly in a real resurrection! (:>)

Sunny

Sunny Walker

SunWalker Enterprises

303-587-3017 (cell)

303-671-0704 (home/office)

 <mailto:sunwalker at comcast.net> sunwalker at comcast.net 

Aurora, Colorado

No matter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish
Proverb

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of RICHARD HOWIE
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 10:12 AM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: 9/01/11, Spong: Political Gridlock and
Presidential Politics

Bob Luidens is pastor at Altamont Reformed Church.

Ellen

Begin forwarded message:

From: Altamont Reformed Church <altamontreformed at yahoo.com>

Date: September 5, 2011 10:23:03 AM EDT

To: RICHARD HOWIE <rhowie3 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: Fwd: [Oe List ...] 9/01/11, Spong:  Political Gridlock and
Presidential Politics

Reply-To: Altamont Reformed Church <altamontreformed at yahoo.com>

Thanks, Ellen.

I believe Spong is dead-on correct in his analysis. Oy, what a mess we have
made.

Interestingly, I had a fascinating conversation recently with a man in
Altamont who made the following, shocking statement: "I don't get why we're
in such a financial mess in America. Fighting wars has always been the best
way to get out of financial problems, like back in the 30's and 40's. I
kinda always figured that fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan would really help
our economy." At first I thought he was being overtly satirical, and was
prepared to chuckle with him at his gallows humor; then I realized he was
being totally forthcoming and honest. It blew me away. I then tried to think
out loud with him about the absurdity that engaging in what is patently
destructive -- war -- is not going to "re-construct" a nation, much less its
economy. He seemed curious about such an possibility, and shrugged it off as
"an interesting idea"; he then went on to say that with "the right
President" fighting the war in Afghanistan the economy will surely "turn
around".

Why, after 58 years, am I finding myself still struck dumb by the human
capacity for upside down and backwards rationality?

Anyways.

I do appreciate your forwarding Spong's remarks. (I also enjoyed his
wonderful words about goats and sheep!)

Blessings.

Bob

P.S. Thanks for your help with the reception yesterday -- and for Dick's
comments during the service. How delightful to hear Roger respond to Dick
that Dick doesn't have to "wait until I leave for AZ" to bring him some
cookies!  :) happy <http://mail.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/1.gif> 

From: RICHARD HOWIE <rhowie3 at verizon.net>
To: Altamont Reformed Church <altamontreformed at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: Fwd: [Oe List ...] 9/01/11, Spong: Political Gridlock and
Presidential Politics

Hi Bob, FYI 

Ellen 

Begin forwarded message:

From: elliestock at aol.com

Date: September 1, 2011 10:11:25 AM EDT

To: Dialogue at wedgeblade.net, OE at wedgeblade.net

Subject: [Oe List ...] 9/01/11, Spong:  Political Gridlock and Presidential
Politics

Reply-To: Order Ecumenical Community  <oe at wedgeblade.net>

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Political Gridlock and Presidential Politics

As I watch political gridlock creating recession in the United States, I
find myself at a loss for words.  It does not help that I have just finished
reading William D. Cohan’s book House of Cards, based on the collapse of
Bear Stearns in 2008.  In that book, I discovered that the behavior of many
Wall Street establishment types was barely legal and was overtly immoral.
The very ones who violated the rules for their own gain still today continue
to lift their voices against any government regulations.  Of course
regulations can be counter-productive and destructive, but every fact of
history screams that they are essential.  Somehow there is an unwillingness
to recognize that the purpose of government regulation of the financial
markets is not to make the lives of those who work on Wall Street more
difficult, but to guarantee their honesty that was blatantly missing in the
sub-prime buildup to the economic disaster of 2008.

To complicate this difficult time, we have now entered the silly season of
presidential politics where insults, sometimes with a germ of truth in them,
now mark our political rhetoric.  We listen to one candidate call the Fed
Chairman Ben Bernanke, a George W. Bush appointee, a traitor.  Another
denies the reality of global warming. Another dismisses evolution as an
“unproven theory,” apparently unaware that modern medicine today assumes its
truth at every level.  Still another claims that homosexuality can be cured,
despite the denial of this possibility by every reputable medical board and
professional association.  We see candidates railing against government
spending without mentioning that they are major recipients of government
largesse.  When all of this is put together, it is more than most rational
minds can tolerate.  The one economic reality in the developed world today
is that over the past 50 years, the wealthy have become wealthier, the
middle class is overtly shrinking and the poor are getting visibly poorer.

In case people haven’t noticed, the anger level in this nation is also
rising.  We saw anger first sweep the Middle East.  It was born in Tunisia,
moved to Egypt, Yemen, Libya, Bahrain, Syria and now has even engulfed Great
Britain and China.  Then moving much closer, we watched riots break out in
Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan.  Riots are always a destructive political
tactic that increases in fury and intensity when people begin to perceive
that no one is either willing or capable of redressing their grievances
through the normal political processes.  Much of the anger in America today
is actually directed against the government.  Depending on how one defines
government it has a deep partisan bias.  The facts are that increasingly the
masses of the citizens in this nation are hurting economically. We Americans
have paid dearly for the tactics of the banks and investment businesses in
that our houses are now worth less, our 401Ks are deflated, our health care
is more expensive, jobs have disappeared and unemployment is at an
unsustainably high level.  Governmental and individual belt-tightening is
now essential. Federal spending does need to be curbed, but in that act we
must not lose sight of that fact that all government spending has been
authorized by a majority vote of both the Senate and the House and these
votes occurred with both parties in the majority.  It is not a partisan
issue.

The first blow to the balanced budget, which George W. Bush inherited when
he was elected president in 2000, came in the cause of national defense.
This nation underwent a terrorist attack of huge proportions on September
11, 2001.  This attack necessitated a rise in both the size and function of
government.  New York City and the Pentagon absorbed the primary damage, but
the nation itself was attacked and the nation stood as one to help absorb
the costs of this attack.  No one was either a liberal or a conservative
when the vote to aid the victims of the first responders and their families
was passed.  To guarantee that another attack would not occur or be
successful, the Department of Homeland Security was created and defense
spending was rapidly increased.  These were the issues that caused the
deficit to begin to rise and the federal bureaucracy to expand. That
occurred with almost unanimous bi-partisan support.

Since the conventional political wisdom is that a major power cannot absorb
an enemy attack without retaliation, our leaders promised to strike at those
who had attacked us. Deciding which nation was responsible for launching
this terrorist strike was, however, not easy to do.  Most of the 9/11
terrorists were citizens of Saudi Arabia, but Saudi Arabia was a staunch
ally, having allowed American forces to deploy in that country during the
first Iraqi war.  It made no sense militarily or politically to attack the
Saudis.  Afghanistan was the nation where the terrorists had trained and its
government had supported Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, so it became the
logical place for retaliation.  The Afghanistan war was thus launched by a
Republican president with the approval of large majorities of both parties
in Congress.  Wars in foreign lands are expensive, but surprisingly no
provision was made to fund this war.  It became an extra-budgetary item and
inevitably contributed to the rising deficit.

There was, however, something unsatisfactory about the Afghanistan war.
Defeating the Afghans made no great contribution to America’s well-being or
to its image.  There were no national resources to be gained.  Afghanistan
was primarily an opium-based, drug economy.  Perhaps the United States
military could disrupt the opium traffic, but that did not meet the national
desire to proclaim our might and to satisfy our outrage at being attacked.

So a concerted political effort was made to associate Saddam Hussein and
Iraq with the terrorist attack as a preliminary to the desire to finish what
many still regarded as an unfinished war in Iraq.  To remove Saddam Hussein,
to create a democracy in the Middle East and to insure a continued flow of
oil to oil-thirsty America became reasons enough for war.  For months this
campaign was orchestrated to show what a threat Iraq was to the security of
America.  Vice President Cheney spoke regularly about the perceived Iraqi
links to Al-Quaeda.  Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, seeking to enhance
her charges that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, spoke of the next
terrorist attack being fueled by an Iraqi created “mushroom cloud.”  It
worked and the country was prepared to resume the war in Iraq.  Again, it
was a Republican president, with bi-partisan support in the Congress,
including such well-known Democratic senators as Charles Schumer and Hillary
Clinton, who plunged this nation into another Middle Eastern conflict.  The
assumption was that this war would be swift and brief.  No greater
miscalculation ever occurred in American history.  Our forces are still in
Iraq nine years later!  The sectarian split in that country still borders on
civil war.  There were no weapons of mass destruction.  Once again, no
financial sacrifices were asked of the American people.  The cost of the war
was simply added to the expanding deficit.  Both parties were guilty of
malfeasance.

While this deficit was exploding, in what was surely an act of political
irresponsibility, President Bush called for and the Congress passed with
bi-partisan support, a second tax cutting bill, this one heavily weighted
toward the wealthy.  The argument was that this tax cut would stimulate
jobs.  That did not happen.  Jobs were largely stagnant in the eight years
of the Bush administration.  Executive pay and corporate bonuses, however,
skyrocketed.

Then came the subprime housing crisis that compromised the integrity of our
banking system, filled as it was with toxic mortgages and worthless debts,
and ultimately creating the “Great Recession” of 2008.  Led by Republican
Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson, the Federal Government began to
rescue the banks, the automobile industry, the insurance industry and the
bond industry, once again adding immeasurably to the deficit, even as
capital losses in the stock markets sent government revenues down.  This
stimulus money, designed to save the nation from a depression, also sent
government spending to a new high.

My point is that we did not get into this economic maelstrom without the
participation of both parties.  Unwise political decisions were piled onto
unwise economic decisions made by a greedy corporate world, almost killing
America’s future.  Now the time has come to pay the piper and everyone is
going to have to pay.  The idea that there can be no revenue increases to
address this crisis is ludicrous.  The idea that the total burden must fall
on cuts in Social Security, health care, educational scholarships and other
parts of the American safety net is immoral. The fact is that the standard
of living for all Americans is going to go down for the next few years.
Democrats must be willing to allow cuts in domestic spending.  Republicans
must be willing to increase revenues from the top 10% of this nation’s
earners.  Bickering over this, attempting to hold the nation hostage to the
threat of default is not only irresponsible, it is almost criminal.

Our present economic predicament is the gift of both of our political
parties. All of us must now take the strong medicine that our present
circumstances require.  Those who think that the problem will be solved if
President Obama is not re-elected are naïve.  Even if the most conservative
Republican becomes president in 21012, this problem will still have to be
addressed.  If the Republicans try to solve this problem on the backs of the
poor and the middle classes, they will be risking a social upheaval the
likes of which this nation has not seen since the Civil War.  If the
Democrats try to solve this problem by excessive taxes without sacrifices
from all, the stagnation that will grip our nation will be severe and
decades long.

The future of this nation now rests in the hands of a Super Congressional
Committee of Twelve – six Democrats and six Republicans – six senators and
six representatives.  They have three months to reach a conclusion.  That
conclusion is far more important than whether anyone is elected or
re-elected in 2012.  This is the time for genuine American leadership to
arise.  The only question is who will provide it.

~John Shelby Spong

Read the essay online
<http://tcpc.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b51b9cf441b059bb232418480&id=
489cb7a52d&e=db34daa597> here.

Question & Answer

Debbie Medves from Waxhaw, North Carolina, via the internet writes:

Question:

I heard you speak in Charlotte last October at Myers Park Baptist Church and
thoroughly appreciated you and your books.  I have bought two sweet young
pygmy goats to help me with the weeding on our four acres.  I have never had
anything more than a dog or a cat as a pet so this is an adventure of sorts.
I know many folks raised around livestock do not have the same appreciation
that I do for this inquisitive, alert creature.  I have even started a goat
blog to share our experiences. (Don’t worry, I am a middle school counselor
during most of the year and my husband is in law enforcement. - we do have
other things to do in our life!)  My concern is how the Bible characterizes
goats as opposed to sheep. Don’t laugh, okay, laugh if you must
but I don’t
think from what I’ve found they are getting a fair personality assessment.
YOU are the man I’d like to hear from about how this negative reputation for
goats in the bible came to be. I bet it’s another of man’s distortions or
perceptions at the time scripture was written.  I’d love to see your
response to this—wonder if your audience would be interested.  I enclose a
picture of my goats for your enjoyment.  Keep on with your marvelous work.

Answer:

Dear Debbie, 

I’ve never been asked about the image of goats in the Bible before, so thank
you for forcing me to expand my thinking.  In my career there are very few
questions that I haven’t had to confront previously, but yours is quite new.
My sources turned up very little, but I will share what I have learned. 

Goats are more independent than sheep, more adventuresome and thus harder to
manage and control.  That may be the source of some of the negativity.
Goats are strong minded creatures and are, therefore, not good followers.
The Church and its leadership have always preferred passive sheep-like lay
people and clergy.  Goats seem to like freedom and do not like being
confined. 

The reason the sheep and the goats have to be separated at night– as the
shepherd was said to do in the parable of the Judgment in Matthew 25 – is
that goats need to be kept warm at night and are therefore housed inside
while sheep prefer the open air.  In biblical times, sheep also cost more
than goats since sheep had more uses, producing both wool and meat, so they
were thought of more highly.  Economic value, I suspect, is part of the
biblical system that accorded a higher worth to a sheep than to a goat. 

I have also read that goats are symbolic of sexuality, sexual desire and
even lechery.  This reference came to me from one who is supposed to be an
authority on dreams and dream analysis and I do not know how to evaluate its
correctness, but if that is true the church has historically tried to
repress and to devalue all sexual feelings..  Perhaps we see an echo of this
when a man who makes women feel sexually uncomfortable is referred to as “an
old goat.” 

In the Bible a goat is also mentioned in Leviticus as part of the Yom Kippur
Liturgy.  The goat is the creature upon which the sins of the people are
symbolically laid before it is driven out of the assembly.  The goat is thus
the sin bearer that carries the people’s sins with it into the exile of the
wilderness, leaving the people sinless and virtuous.  This image may also
have led to the biblical negativity toward goats. 

We refer in our vernacular to a grouchy person as someone from whom another
has “gotten his goat.”  In tracing down this image, I discovered that it
came from the custom of placing a goat into the stall of a nervous horse
because of the goat’s calming influence. If the goat was removed prematurely
the horse became or remained irritable.  So we say of a nervous and
irritable human being that “someone must have gotten his goat.” 

Boil all of this down and perhaps we might find some clues to explain the
Bible’s negativity toward goats. 

For what it is worth, I also learned in my research that the tail of the
sheep is made up primarily of suet.  I do not know what that proves, but it
was something I did not know before and so I pass it on. 

I’m not sure that sheep come off in the Bible or in our culture with a very
positive reputation either.  They are not considered to be particularly
bright.  Sheep are followers not leaders and are referred to as “dumb
sheep.”  I’m not sure that the traditional image of clergy as shepherds and
the congregation as sheep is a very positive image! 

Hope this helps.  Enjoy your new pets.  Thanks for sending me their pictures
and yours. 

~John Shelby Spong

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