[Oe List ...] Thank you, dear ones

Mon Sep 19 15:00:02 EDT 2011

While it took a while for me to sort out my life and get to it, The videos
were WONDERFUL – as Nancy says, like being there with you – I was singing
along!

The stories were wondrous, real, and now I am remembering, like to BREATHE,
to also FROLICK! 

Love to all,

Sunny

Sunny Walker

SunWalker Enterprises

303-587-3017 (cell)

303-671-0704 (home/office)

 <mailto:sunwalker at comcast.net> sunwalker at comcast.net 

Aurora, Colorado

No matter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish
Proverb

  _____  

From: oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces at wedgeblade.net] On Behalf
Of Nancy Trask
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 9:42 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Subject: [Oe List ...] Thank you, dear ones

Thank you, everyone, for the deep care during the Fred Buss memorial service
-- I watched the videos & felt that I had been with you there -- and for the
recounting of Joe's history & Order history & the histories of Selma
involvement.  I/We certainly have been formed & enriched by it.

Nancy

From: Jaime R Vergara <svesjaime at aol.com>
To: oe at wedgeblade.net
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2011 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews image shift?

I think, that was Tarawa in the Gilberts, now known as Kiribati.

that Joe was in the battle for Tinian

j'aime la vie

-----Original Message-----From: Ken Fisher <hkf232 at gmail.com>To: Order
Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:26
amSubject: Re: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews image shift? 

 Thank you, David.

"They both pastored churches until the war started and served as chaplains."

The story I recall was that Joe was in the battle for Tinian, heavily
defended by the Japanese to 'the last man'.  The fighting was intense.
Bodies were stacked up like cord wood.  As Chaplain, Joe would be close to
the men, pray with them and bury them.  In the midst of this was the
question: "How can one say that God is love?"  If God is 'love', even in
this massive desolation, how can that be proclaimed?

Much later when he said that we may be guided by our strategies, but we die
in our tactics, he was referring to the positions of the dead he encountered
in that battle.

One could easily make that experience a pivot. 

And thank you all for the Selma stories.  (Anne, Charles, LeDona and others)
I would have much enjoyed hearing them 40+ years ago.

Ken Fisher

On 2011-08-06, at 1:59 PM, David Walters wrote:

Jack Lewis was a Texan, born in San Angelo. He graduated from the University
of Texas in 1937 and enrolled at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
He finished in 1940 A pastored 1st Presbyterian Church in Lubbock for 2
years until he entered WII as a navy chaplain. After the war he became  the
director of student work at UT for 4 years. He left for graduate study at
the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. While there he visited places
like Iona. He returned to Austin and became the founding director of the
Christian Faith and Life Community. He left in 1964 to become the assoc.
director of United Religious Work at Cornell where he remained at until he
retired. Jack died in the decade. This info is from biographical directory
of Presbyterian ministers.

 His papers are in the University Library Archives at Cornell. I talked to
someone who said that they have not been processed and are in a storage
area, but they can be accessed by appointment. It would be interesting if
someone on this list who lives near Cornel could make a visit and see what
is there. Most interesting would be a correspondence file with Joe Mathews 

I do not remember who told it, but in spite of all the tales of animosity
between Jack Lewis an Joe, Jack was said to be the only person outside of
Joes family that Joe would visit that didn’t have anything to do with
mission of EI/ICA/OE. 

Joe and Jack were about the same age and finished their seminary work in
different places about same time. They both pastored churches until the war
started and served as chaplains. 

There are all kind of stories about the CFLC and the circumstances about Joe
an Lyn and the other families leaving for Chicago. Here is one you probably
haven’t heard. When we finished the Town Meetings in Louisiana we held a
celebration. A college professor Baton Rouge came 

and told this story. He had been a student at UT and lived at CFLC. He came
in from class in day in the middle of the afternoon and here singing coming
from the chapel. He went to find out what was going on. What he found was
best described as a divorce ceremony, complete with a written liturgy. He
then learned that they had decided that the only could leave was to
intentionally symbolize their decision. Leading it were Jack Lewis and Joe
Mathews. After it was over and the tears stopped, they loaded up for
Chicago.-David Walters--- jfwiegel at yahoo.com wrote:From: James Wiegel
<jfwiegel at yahoo.com>To: Order Ecumenical Community
<oe at wedgeblade.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews image
shift?Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 01:13:20 -0700 (PDT) 

Getting back to the "O" level . . .  what were the years that Joe taught at
Perkins?  did he also teach at Colgate??

Who was Jack Lewis (I know that he was director or something of the
Christian Faith and Life Community -- is he still alive? -- I remember Judy
and I having dinner with the Hilliard's a couple of years ago, and a joke
from Jack Lewis and some stories and . . .) what influence did he have in
Joe going to Austin?

Jim Wiegel

Life isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be life. -- James Michener, The
Source

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
<http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> 

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is available in Phoenix in 2011-12. Program begins on Oct 12-14, 2011. See
our website for further details.

--- On Fri, 8/5/11, JOHN L. EPPS <jlepps at pc.jaring.my> wrote:

From: JOHN L. EPPS <jlepps at pc.jaring.my>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews image shift?
To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 6:08 PM

Thanks George.You're certainly right about Outler. I had the honor of
working for him ayear while at Perkins, and once over an Easter holiday, had
theopportunity with my roomate of "house-sitting" for him and his wife
whilethey went on vacation. He was a stellar teacher. I recall once a
lectureon the 13th century which, in one hour, he put you there and walked
youaround in it with deep insight and considerable humor. He was alsocapable
of taking you apart in class, usually without your recognizing ituntil you
walked out of room! He was the best of the academics.He was clearly not an
existentialist. His claim was that they wereemotionalists who have gotten
over fundamentalism! He also claimed thatmost people never really understood
orthodoxy, and that's why theyrebelled against it. He was very much into the
contemporary world, andcould do a contemporary political analysis like few
others.Joe was gone when I got to Perkins, but stories about him were
abundant.When Joe died, I phoned Outler with the news. He was appreciative
andoffered sincere condolences.Clearly they were on different wave lengths.
But not without appreciationfor each other.Thanks for your
correction.JohnQuoting George Holcombe <geowanda at earthlink.net>:> I find the
comments about Joe and Outler a bit out of order.  And of> course we can
invoke the "Lingo rule" that there are as many stories> about the Order as
there are members.>> I began as a student at Perkins the semester after Joe
left for Austin.>  There was no mention of him being forced to leave.  In
fact he was> spoken of rather highly by profs and students, and the senior
students> certainly missed him.  His decision to give up on his
dissertation,> which he wrote some of it at Perkins (the reason for him
being in the> stacks), and which was 2/3's the way home when he let it go,
was> something he decided.  I doubt that Outler could force anyone out.  A>
little history - Merrimon Cunningham was made Dean of the SMU theology>
school in 1951.  SMU did not at that time support the Theology School> with
their funds.  It was done by the churches.  Merrimom recruited and> took the
Perkins family, a very wealthy oil family from Witchita Falls,> to Yale to
look at buildings for the theology school that they wanted> to donate to
SMU.  Somewhere in there it was decided that the SMU> theology school would
be called Perkins School of Theology and would> become the Yale of the South
academically.    They and a very few> others supplied the money for the
buildings and endowment for the> professors.  Outler was one of the
professors, along with others to> take the seminary from a "preacher
factory" to a genuine theological> school.  Cunningham went after promising
scholars.  Prior to this the> school had had a tough time with conservative
church people both> Methodist and Baptist and the school had not been known
for its> academics.  Cunningham fought for both academic freedom and
naturally> against the fundamentalist.  He brought Joe to Perkins, and if
there> had been a dismissal it would have been Merrimom not Outler to do
the> deed, as Outler was also the target of the conservatives.  Merrimom
and> Joe were pretty close, as some in the development department will>
remember.  When Merrimom left Perkins he headed up the Danforth> Foundation
from which we received generous grants and Joe and Merrimon> had a good
relationship.  The deal at Perkins was that professors were> to have a Ph.D.
or were working on one.  I think that is still their> policy, though they
went off the rails as best I can see some awhile> back and surrendered a lot
to the fundies and conservatives.>> Outler always had good things to say
about Joe when I was in> conversations where his name came up, but
understand Outler was an> academician's academician.  He brought John Wesley
out of the grave to> the Methodist church and humanized him.  I remember him
showing some of> us a copy of a bill from a pub for the ale of his preachers
after a> conference.  I was never in his class but he conducted a weekly
session> for Systematic Theology where all the students gathered into the
main> auditorium and the various professors debated one another in the old>
fashioned academic way.  He usually shredded all of them in his polite,>
humorous manner.  Students, if they dared, could enter in at the close,> and
he would politely chew them up too.  Whatever argument you brought> to him,
he would take the opposite view and like a chess master he> would run you
all over the board.>> I don't know for sure, but I think Joe despaired of
the academic> approach.  He certainly poked fun from time to time at the
academic.> This still leaves me with the question of what was Joe's struggle
and> discernment to drop his Ph.D. and go off to a fairly uncertain future>
of a very young organization, Faith and Life.  You need to understand> that
this was a time when Universities and Seminaries were casting> about for
talent as there was a swell in students and much generosity> from donors,
had he needed another job.  While never explicit, his> speeches and his
personal conversations seem to plead for expenditure,> giving up life to the
world.  There was a scream in there that echoed> in your own soul.>> George
Holcombe> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.> Austin, TX 78728> Mobile 512/252-2756>
geowanda at earthlink.net>> ‎“...we have the choice: we can gratefully
cultivate the> relationships that make us part of a vast network, or we can
take them> for granted and allow them to wither and die.”  Brother David>
Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words>>>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 6:12 PM, David
Walters wrote:>> > I spent a week in the early part of '72 with a friend at
Perkins. I> was in the library on afternoon prowling in the stacks when I
found a> small office behind a Mosler safe door. To left of the door I found
the> name Albert C.Outler. Aha! I went in and introduced myself and we>
proceeded to have an interesting conversation. At least until I asked> him
about Joe Mathews. Conversation over. He went back to his work and> I left.>
>> > About the safe. Outler had convinced some group in England to loan> him
all of John and Charles Wesley's papers. I mean every thing.> Diaries.
Letters. Sermons, the works. Abingon Press published a 25> volume set of the
works of John Wesley edited by Outler.> >> > Bishop Jim in Bending History
tells that Oulter was one of Joe's> professor's at Yale. One of the 1st
courses he took was taught by> Outler and required each student to write an
assay entitled "How My> Mind Has Changed Theologically in the Last Ten
Years"> > Joe left Yale ant to teach at Colgate in New York. When left there
to> teach Perkins there was his old professor Albert Outler. As I>
understand their relationship degenerated pretty quick. Some one once> said
that the major contradiction in their relationship turn on the> fact that
Outler was committed to intellectual pursuits and Joe was> committed to
being a radical churchman. Outler eventually found a way> to have Joe
removed from the faculty.> >> > Bishop Jim tells a great deal about Joe and
H. Richard Niebuhr.> During the '47-48, Joe and another student Herndon
Wagers had lunch> daily with Niehbuhr where they would engage i deep
conversation on> theological issue of the day . Another interesting comment
was about> how Joe would go to library in the afternoon and read Nebuhr's
works -> all of them a rather lage task.  I guess he was trying take
Kierkegaard> seriously - to will one thing.> >> > Earlier in the book Bishop
Jim talks about he and Joes time at> Biblical Seminary. He described it as a
middle of the road place -> neither liberal or conservative.  He tells that
became close to Wilbert> W White the schools founder who had done to Yale in
the 20s and had> been influenced greatly by William Rainey Harper who had
founded the> University of Chicago. They were exposed to people like  Edwin
Lewis,> Karl Hein and Julius Richter, a German who had at one time been the>
pastor to Kaiser Wilheim.> >> > I remember talking once with Bishop Jim and
his talking about how> they would often attend lectured series' at other
nearby by schools> like Columbia, NYU and Union Seminary. This would have
exposed them to> vroad range of thinkers.> >> > Joe left Biblical after two
years ago to go to Drew wher he> graduated, Joe was soon installed at a
Methodist Church in Conneticut,> He then enrolled at Union Seminary which
was short commute from his> church.  There he studied under Rinhold Niebuhr
and Paul Tillich.> >> > When I took a PLC in the spring of '700 and when the
Cihicago to work> on the Locaal Church Experiment therre was something fa> >
familar about the stange charts they drawing on chalkboar4ds,> especiall
those that Joe drew. On of Joe.s professorrs at Biblicall was> Dean G.
McKee, who would later be mamed its president, In the early 60s> he learned
of his boards' intention to retire him when he reached 65.> He beat them to
the punch and obtained an appointment as proffessor at> Columbia Theological
Seminary, a Presbyertian scgoll in Decatur, Ga. I> spent a year ther in
'68-69. I never had any of his classes, but when> it was his turn to speak
at Chapel he wuld arrange for an easel and> chalkboard to be place next to
the pulpit. There he would draw the same> kind of charts I would find in
Chicago. When he would  step away from> the pulpit and start drawing, groans
and snickers would be heard in the> congregation from students and faculty
alike.> >> > An interesting note about Mckee, His wife had died about thime
he was> deciding to leave New York. Three or fours years after I left
seminary> he married a younger woman who an organist at a lrgee
Presbyterian> chuch in Atlanta. Dhe had been a student in sacred music at
Union in> the mid 50s. She is still living across the road in Dr. McKee's
house> across from Columbia Seminary. I had a delightful conversation with
her> a few months ago about her late husband and his charts.> > -David
Walters> >> > --- geowanda at earthlink.net wrote:> >> > From: George Holcombe
<geowanda at earthlink.net>> > To: Order Ecumenical Community
<oe at wedgeblade.net>> > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews image
shift?> > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 16:12:43 -0500> >> > The other question here
is what persuaded Joe to leave Perkins, an> established institution, and go
to Faith and Life in Austin?  In a> discussion I had with Dr. Albert Outler,
the famed Wesley expert and> professor at Perkins, about a year before his
death, he talked about> how he had tried to talk Joe into finishing his
dissertation, which> would have meant tenure at Perkins and a comfortable
life, etc.> Something happened, maybe Slicker knows, that sent Joe to Faith
and> Life, which was a struggling student program in Austin, which>
conservative church people had taken aim.  His education from WWII had>
boiled into something.  That illustration about stepping out over> 40,000
fathoms of jello, was probably not a cute invention.> >> > George Holcombe>
> 14900 Yellowleaf Tr.> > Austin, TX 78728> > Mobile 512/252-2756> >
geowanda at earthlink.net> >> > ‎“...we have the choice: we can gratefully
cultivate the> relationships that make us part of a vast network, or we can
take them> for granted and allow them to wither and die.”  Brother David>
Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words> >> >> >> > On Aug 1, 2011, at 7:31 PM,
David Walters wrote:> >> > You have to read Bending History and the other
transcribed talks> that we have along  with Brother Joe to understand what
happened to Joe> in the 40s which are decidedly different from this journey
in the 30s.> As I remember it, Joe went into the army a year or less after
he had> finished  seminary in New York where he had encountered the
Neibuhrs,> Tillich, and others,. I think his experience in the Pacific
radically> grounded what he had learned from them. Transformation became a
new> word for him. He finally knew what Wesley was talking about.> >> >> >
-David Walters> >> > --- jfwiegel at yahoo.com wrote:> >> > From: James Wiegel
<jfwiegel at yahoo.com>> > To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>>
> Cc: Springboard Dialogue <springboard at wedgeblade.net>, Colleague> Dialogue
<dialogue at wedgeblade.net>> > Subject: [Oe List ...] When did Joe Mathews
image shift?> > Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:07:11 -0700 (PDT)> >> > so, I have
a question:  what was it that radicalized Joe Mathews?  In> 1946, he was
going on about how his theology had changed because of the> war (WWII).  By
the time of these talks he is all about the social> revolution and the
radical revolution and the people of God are> revolutionaries.  What
happened?> >> > Was Joe ever engaged in the civil rights movement?  Did he
go to> Selma?  I have testimony that David Scott was there, and he met
Betty> Pesek there . . . What about Bonnie Swain?  did she play a role?> >>
> Jim Wiegel> >> > Life isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be life. --
James> Michener, The Source> >> > 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona
85353-2401> > +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel> > jfwiegel at yahoo.com
www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________ OE mailing list>
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